by leaving_quietly 20 Replies latest watchtower bible
It's like there's a scripture cherry-picked for everything!
Leaving_quietly, do you believe the Bible can be interpreted correctly, what with there being many contradictory texts?
Don't you think 2,000 years of expectation and, "it's coming soon" is a bit much?
@leavingwt and @dontplaceliterature: I plan on it at some point (got a wife with some uber-conscience lately . . . this is not going to go well)
@Knowsnothing: I think the decades (er, century) of rhetoric about this is a bit much. Hearing it at every. single. meeting. is really old. Heard a talk recently about how Satan came in before Jehovah and insinutated that "everything that a man has he will give in behalf of his soul" (Job 2:4). The speaker said that this meant that Satan was saying that the only reason people serve God is because of what God does for them. He then said that we need to prove that we serve God because we love him. I agree with that, but that's not why we do it! We do it because we want everlasting life!!!!!! If there was no everlasting life at the end of all of this, then what would the point be? This is the constant carrot that's dangled in front of all JWs.
Having been raised as a JW, I never questioned it. For the most part, it all made sense to me. That is, until they changed the generation doctrine again in 2010 (I was apparently oblivious to the 1995 change . . . maybe I didn't read that particular issue.) Then, I started noticing just some really odd things. Like, in 2007, the FDS was responsible for all the "spiritual food". Then, in 2009, only the GB was responsible and that the GB had no clue who the FDS were. Wha...? That seems messed up to me. To this day, they still say the FDS is providing spiritual food, but that can't be since the GB said they were the ones who were responsible for it (somehow they claim to represent the FDS, but then they don't know who the FDS is . . . ?)
I started reading the Bible (read it once when I was in Bethel, but that's because I had to . . . part of the 1st year program). This time, I'm reading it with a desire to "get it", but I'm reading a different translation. When things don't match what I recall, I compare, then research using all sorts of sources. I'm discovering some pretty significant differences in translation and in understanding. Admittedly, some things, scholars can't even agree on, so there's no way there could be a single "truth". Some things, though, are pretty major for me. Lots of it has to do with going "beyond the things that are written." (1 Cor 4:6) The constant rule-making is maddening. When I was younger, many JWs did NOT go to college because of the rules. Then those rules were relaxed a little, but too late for folks in my age group. No retirement accounts now because so many could not get a decent job due to a lack of education. Now, the rules are back in place, and harder than ever, with threatening elders of removal if they or their family members go to college. Show me that in the Bible! Doesn't exist! So, I watch people like my parents who are getting up in years have little or no retirement. I wasn't supposed to graduate high school. I wasn't supposed to get married. I wasn't supposed to have a child. I wasn't supposed to have a child about to graduate high school. The new system was supposed to be here!!! And, now, over 25 years since my baptism, it's full circle. No going to college. Removal of privileges if you do. I understand the supposed reason (bad environment, temptations, etc.), but it would seem that 1 Cor 10:25-30 would have some place in here: "25 Everything that is sold in a meat market keep eating, making no inquiry on account of YOUR conscience; 26 for “to Jehovah belong the earth and that which fills it.” 27 If anyone of the unbelievers invites YOU and YOU wish to go, proceed to eat everything that is set before YOU, making no inquiry on account of YOUR conscience. 28 But if anyone should say to YOU: “This is something offered in sacrifice,” do not eat on account of the one that disclosed it and on account of conscience. 29 “Conscience,” I say, not your own, but that of the other person. For why should it be that my freedom is judged by another person’s conscience? 30 If I am partaking with thanks, why am I to be spoken of abusively over that for which I give thanks?"
I'm ranting. Sorry. Waking up. Can't talk to family about this. They shut down as soon as I make mention of something that doesn't seem quite right. Trying to figure out what to do next.
Oh, and the one scripture that is rarely ever discussed in WT publications: Luke 21:8
"He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them."
And what does this past Sunday's study article say?
"Another way we can "sleep on" is by ignoring the fact that Jehovah's time to destroy the ungodly has approached."
If I didn't have family in, I would run.
Paul also told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach.
Does this mean every Christian must do that?
The "in support of" preaching list in the OP deals are instructions given to specific individuals in specific contexts.
Welcome!
It takes more than preaching door-to-door in order to pronounce some group "the only true Christians." In Matt. 7: 21-23, Jesus made it clear that "powerful works" wouldn't earn admission into the kindom of the heavens. JWs preach, big deal. They could greater things like prophecy and expel demons and still be rejected. JWs that have been trained by Watchtower Corporation fall far short in many important respects for the identifying marks of Christians.
To this day, they still say the FDS is providing spiritual food, but that can't be since the GB said they were the ones who were responsible for it (somehow they claim to represent the FDS, but then they don't know who the FDS is . . . ?)
Don't argue with your parents/family. I tried reasoning with my mother. It. Did. Not. Go. Well. It was on this very glaring contradiction.
The reasoning is classic bait-and-switch.
I'm ranting. Sorry. Waking up. Can't talk to family about this. They shut down as soon as I make mention of something that doesn't seem quite right. Trying to figure out what to do next.
Not at all my friend. I completely understand you. Approach the situation with caution. Venting here is nice, but it can become obsessive. When your done with your mental conflicts, take some time for yourself to reflect on life in general. What things you really like. Who you really are.
Welcome leaving-quietly,
Luke 21:8 is one of many scriptures the Org. deliberately avoid in the Wt publications. I have another one.
'Reasoning' book p.133 under the subheading'True prophets speak in the name of God, ..' The book quoted from Deut 18: 18-20 in identifying the False Prophets. It however deliverately dismissed following verses of 21 and 22 which reads,
21 And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?"22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightenedat him.
Notice next sentence that reads,
If any individuals or organizations claim to represent God but decline to use God's personal name, and make it a practice to express their own opinions on matters, are they measuring up to this important qualification of a true prophet?
Wow, no wonder the book dismissed verses of 21 and 22 of Deut 18 chapter. The WTS has claimed they are the only group that uses God's personal name and here criticizing other orgarnizations for not using it. Yet who fit in to the Deut 18:21,21?
The interesting thing is that I never really remembering reading that particular scriptures. Why? That's one of the scriptures the WTS avoid like plague.
If you read carefully you will find one or more of following methods in almost every paragraph of the WT publications: mis quote, half quote, false scriptural aplication, taken out of context, self contacdicting, false analogy, scholarstic dishonesty, etc.
I was/am in for 25 years, pioneered for 15 of them, and read the entire bible several times and spent 5-10 hours weekly in studying the publications and yet never saw any of these fallacy up until recently. I am still stunned by the fact that how thoroghly I have been blinded.
You are not alone.
1 Tim 4:16 - Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Stay by these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you. (this was Paul's advice to Timothy.....who....like Paul.....was a teacher.....a LEADER)
Rom 10:14,15 - how, in turn will they hear without someone to preach? (Exactly.....SOMEONE to preach....not EVERYONE)
Luke 19:40 - I tell YOU, If these remained silent, the stones would cry out. (Again....his disciples that were traveling with him. There is no mention of the thousands of believers across the land that stayed at home to take care of their families and did NOT travel with Jesus. The bible does not say whether or not THEY were out preaching)
2 Tim 4:2 - preach the word, be at it urgently in favorable season, in troublesome season, reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all long-suffering and [art of] teaching (IN FAVORABLE SEASON - As you alluded to....every Christian that believes WILL be moved to make a witness to his faith at the right time. Or as you put it....when they are so moved. There is nothing in the bible that indicates that all much preach door to door consecutively several times per month to complete strangers so as to turn in a pharasaical monthly report.)
JWs have been diligent about "keeping awake". How does one respond to: "at least we're trying"?
Really? Or have they been crying "wolf" for over 100 years....thus dulling the responsiveness of the ones they attempt to preach to? Moreover....please read Galations 1:6-9. I'll quote just part of it. "Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed." Do you think that just maybe.....MAYBE the Watchtower organization might have declared something beyond what is accepted by telling everyone that the faithful men of old would be resurrected in 1925? Do you think that maybe they declared something beyond what is accepted by telling the world that God promised the end of this system of things before those that saw the events of 1914 pass away?
I have an interesting quote for you. Awake magazine of March 22, 1993 says the following, "Down through the centuries since Jesus' day, so many unfulfilled predictions have been made that many no longer take them seriously. Undeterred by previous failures, some seem to have been spurred on by the approach of the year 2000 and have made further predictions of the end of the world. The flood of false alarms is unfortunate. They are like the wolf-wolf cries of the shepherd boy. People soon dismiss them, and when the true warning comes, it too is ignored." Yet somehow this doesn't apply to the WT and all of their false predictions?
Is it ok to make reckless predictions on behalf of God....so long as you THINK you are acting in accordance with Luke 23:43-44 and 2 Pet 3:3 and 4?
How about,
(Romans 15:19, 20) . . .from Jerusalem and in a circuit as far as Il·lyr′i·cum I have thoroughly preached the good news about the Christ. 20 In this way, indeed, I made it my aim not to declare the good news where Christ had already been named, in order that I might not be building on another man's foundation;
