I always figured if god did exist he was a psychopath and an asshole!
If you knew that a murder was going to take place......
by Sour Grapes 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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SweetBabyCheezits
For NFRGeorge....
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Sour Grapes
I guess that at times it is a little confusing to me. I want
to believe that God cares and that He has some sort of
a master plan, but at times I just don't know.
I still say grace before meals to thank God for the food that
He provides but then I realize that if God gave me this food
then why doesn't He give food to millions of other people
who are starving to death? It sorta makes me feel guilty
for even thanking Him for the food.
Sour Grapes
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SweetBabyCheezits
SourGrapes: I still say grace before meals to thank God for the food that He provides but then I realize that if God gave me this food then why doesn't He give food to millions of other people who are starving to death? It sorta makes me feel guilty for even thanking Him for the food.
I admire that humble perspective, SourGrapes.
Once a Christian FB friend was updating her status with news of wildfires in her area. She asked friends to submit prayers that her home might be spared. Lots of FB friends came to her aid to petition the Almighty 'that the laws of the universe might be annulled on behalf of a single confessedly unworthy subject.' (....to paraphrase Ambrose Bierce's definition of prayer.)
The next day, what do you know, the fires were under control and her house was unscathed. She posted on FB to let everyone know that the prayers worked. If I had a dollar for every "God is good".....
Meanwhile, numerous other presumably Christian families were nearby, sifting through the ashes of what was once their homes.
To add another perspective, my wife said she used to wonder why she was so special to have been born into a JW family - "the right religion." She was thankful to God, too.
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OldGenerationDude
I'm not saying God exists. I raised questions because of the paradox raised. I have nothing but the greatest respect for the atheist point of view and it appears that too many of you are responding as you have due to getting used to being attacked. This isn't an attack against you or atheism. It's a list of questions.
Read the questions again not as a list of attacks on atheism or from the standpoint of someone trying to prove there is a deity of any kind. What are the answers to them? In other words this is a no win situation for any god of any type because on one hand if there is a god people accuse that deity of not stopping crime and injustice, but on the other hand if there was a system in place to stop crimes before they happen, how does one account for punishing people for crimes they have never committed?
SweetBabyCheezits, the "therefore" is about the circular pattern one then gets stuck in, not what you mistook what I obviously poorly wrote down. For my not making it clearer than that I was only tryinf to show the paradox of the reasoning, I take full responsibility and if anyone was offended because I didn't make it clear I was trying to attack anyone's beliefs, I am truly sorry.
I should point out that no one attempted to answer the questions, and that was the point. Is the question being posed because the one asking really wants a God that limits human freedom to the point of stopping people from doing wrong as illustrated? Is that the type of God the questioner really wants to believe in?
In the end we must all do our part to alleviate the suffering of our neighbors and prevent it. Charging religion or a fabled God doesn't matter and spending our time endlessly debating means little to a person who is dying in pain, alone, with no one to comfort them and to be with them through the ordeal of facing death. Proving there is or isn't a God is a waste of time when this moment could really be used to stop crime, suffering, and injustice ourselves...That's the point.
It's a paradox to blame belief in a God or whatever about preventing evils in the world when we're no better ourselves. An argument, no matter how well presented or loudly preached fills no stomachs, stops no bullets. Who is to say I am or am not guilty of wasting my time by what I've written today and could have used it to prevent or stop an evil from happening? God may not be real to some, but I certainly am and so is everyone here. That's the paradox, because we do not stop to exist just because we may miss the opportunity to do good.
But again, if anyone read an attempt to insult atheism then my apologies for offending. That was never the intention.
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SweetBabyCheezits
My apologies, OGD, I was on the defensive. Seems I'm having my man-period this week. Let me think about your post and treat it with the respect it deserves.
I'll switch my cynical hat for my critical thinking hat, which I'm told is a brown fedora (...and may explain why Indiana Jones was so good at figuring shit out).
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tootired2care
I think if you're going to believe in god the jw's (I realize there are other faiths that share this view) seem to have the most logical explanation - God is allowing all this to happen until armageddon. Otherwise he is completely guilty of all bad that has happended and is going to happen.
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Glander
Sweet baby - the picture of the starving babies is, to me, one of the reasons I am an atheist. What normal person, if they had the power God is supposed to have, would not intervene.
I can't resist feeding stray cats which drives my wife nuts.
There is no god, capital 'g' or lower case.
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La Falta Habitacion Por Sr Hor-Hey!!
Hey SBC!
That picture while humbling, doesn't necessarily give one a wide opening to direct blame God's way. I think that picture is more of an indictment of the leaders within that country who've failed their people, or even the leaders of neighboring countries. Matter fact, lets take it a step further considering we're now part of a global economy, in that a measure of fault can be put upon countries of greater means who would rather put their rather significant resources towards self-serving interests with utter disregard to their neighbors and in some cases at the cost of their neighbors. One might consider examples such as Darfur, or Somalia. The conflict in the former, and the anarchy within the latter had absolutely no bearing on the Western world until it affected them. With Darfur, it was that enough people made a stink about it, particulary Hollywood, and with Somalia, it took some some commercial ships getting the equivalent of a seaside carjacking before it finally got back on the radar post-Josh Hartnett era.
You know what though, most people including myself still don't care enough if at all about those situations or even the turmoil right here on our own soil. I don't believe that's something that can be blamed on God as the buck starts and stops with us. The question of this thread is that if you knew a murder was going to take place, would you do something to stop it? I know for a fact that if I go to Google News right now at this very moment, and do a search for murder, I'll get a ton of results. Despite the police, despite the overwhelming community being law-abiding citizens, there are some people are just going to do what they do. Short of a police state, in a country that pats its own back for championing the free will of its people, nothing will eliminate violence as its par with the territory called, freedom. Short of pharmaceutical companies producing a drug that stimulates empathy and combats apathy, we will always have poverty and injustice. We can go on and on, but at the end of the day, the fault rests with us as humans.
Guns don't kill people, and disregarding the Old Testament God doesn't kill people, but rather people kill people. God doesn't let people starve, but rather the apathetic public at large lets them starve. To be fair to the public, the problems are large and complex, but our shortcomings are still not being given the consideration that's merit. For the record, I have some major beefs with God and Jesus, but those subjects are off topic, so I'm gonna hold that piece at this time. But here's a couple pictures for you.
edit post: when it comes to natural disasters, I don't know where to begin in how to defend God or Christ .
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SweetBabyCheezits
NRFGeorge: That picture while humbling, doesn't necessarily give one a wide opening to direct blame God's way. I think that picture is more of an indictment of the leaders within that country who've failed their people, or even the leaders of neighboring countries.
NRFGeorge, I'm not blaming any [concept of] god for causing a food crisis. I'm saying that a god who permits innocent children to suffer and a nonexistent god look very much alike.
History has shown man can be pretty rotten. And I expect multitudes of people to be ignorant and apathetic to the suffering of others.
I would expect more from a god [described as] "perfect in all his ways" and omni-everything.
I would expect a loving father god to use his far-reaching and limitless powers to protect innocent children from these rotten people. What human father could watch with indifference while his precious children suffer the painful effects of man's greed and corruption? Such a father would be labeled incompetent, if not evil, and unfit as a parent.
Nawsah, the Judeo-Christian concept of god is painted up with too many glorified attributes for us to shrug off the starving children in that image above. Forget the supposed issue of free will. Can he not miraculously provide for them like the widow and her son as touted in the Bible? Or what great wisdom is he imparting to them by allowing them to starve to death at a young age?
God doesn't let people starve...
Well he sure as hell isn't feeding them.
I don't believe that's something that can be blamed on God as the buck starts and stops with us.
I totally agree. I think we shoulder all of the responsibility for getting ourselves out of this shit hole that our ancestors dug. Again, atheists who "blame god" aren't really blaming god. They're just noting as a matter of logic that a deity described, for example, as a loving father wouldn't leave his kids to starve to death. Ergo... IF a deity exists, someone has royally f'd up his description.
