by garbonzo 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Captain Obvious said, "it's technically a conscience matter for legal reasons of course."
Absolutely! We had a meeting part on this not long ago(2-3 months ago), as far as I know nothing changed.
The WTS's double policy, the public one and the inside one, seems apply to this doctrine as well.
I threw my medical directive card (Blood card) away 10 years ago. If I need blood I'm going to take it Regardless of what the BORG says.
Kojack
If they are, it's because they are being rebellious against the WT itself, or some other sin. If you think it is true, then find an example that does not include other sins.We'd love to see it. Second-hand stories or gossip don't count.
Isn't this always the trump card. I've had elders tell me they chose to DF when they felt the person had a bad attitude. My question was, define a bad attitude. Is it really a bad attitude or do they mearly disagree? So if not for blood, then well they have the attitude trump card
If an individual brazenly takes blood into his body, he is sinning unrepentantly against Jehovah. But how can one show one's repentance after falling prey to fear and taking a blood transfusion? One way would be through willingness to obey God's command to pour such blood out on the ground--even after it has already entered the body.
For example, it may be necessary to cut the repentant one several times, perhaps even at a vital artery, thus releasing the unclean blood that should be poured out on the ground. If he is agreeable to doing so, perhaps a mere reproof from the body of elders is necessary. Care should be taken that those particularly zealous for obedience to God's command do not engage in sadistic, ritualistic cutting such as those of pagan nations did in the past to honor their false gods. As this is a loving incision, elders must also avoid allowing personal resentment to cause them to endanger their repentant brother's life by cutting too deeply or cutting into vital organs.
We appreciate this loving, timely provision from Jehovah, which serves to protect us from the unclean practice of taking blood.
--sd-7
Wasn't oompa DF'd for having blood after his motorcycle accident? He was a fader, so maybe they just decided to get rid of him that way idk.
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1. What Watchtower says cannot be trusted. It does not matter how explicit the statement. If it comes from Watchtower it cannot be trusted at face value.
2. I have known of individuals who conscientiously accepted blood products termed “unacceptable” under Watchtower doctrine, and it was announced they were disfellowshipped/disassociated. On the other hand, and as Dogpatch says, others do not have knowledge of this occurring that they can verify. Naturally this raises questions about what is the actual policy.
3. A recent incident reported here is of Maribel Perez. According to reporter/writer/videographer Joel Engardio this woman was disfellowshipped/disassociated for accepting blood transfusion. This incident reported occurred in 2010. If Perez was disfellowshipped for some other reason it is not indicated in the report. (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/medical/189236/1/Knocking-Director-Joel-Engardio-wonders-why-JWs-bother-to-adhere-to-a-no-blood-theology )
4. Locally we have the incident of Oompa from 2011. I have not read the whole discussion, but his story is available on this forum for readers to make of it what they will. (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/205700/1/so-oompa-got-dfd-this-week )
5. If current Watchtower policy is to disfellowship/disassociate Witnesses for conscientiously accepting “unacceptable” blood products then in relation to numbers of Witnesses disfellowshipped for sexual sins we should expect there to be a relatively small number of Witnesses who are actually disfellowshipped for accepting blood products forbidden under Watchtower doctrine. That is to say, for many and varied reasons it would be irrational to think Watchtower policy no longer shuns Witnesses for conscientiously accepting blood because we do not realize the numbers disfellowshipped over blood as we see for sexual sins. These many and varied reason I shared earlier on this forum. (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/medical/224882/1/Blood-transfusion-DF-DA ) Because the relative number would be small this might explain why some folks know of this occurring and others do not.
6. Then there is always the conclusion that Watchtower policy is to no longer have Witnesses shunned for the sin of accepting “unacceptable” blood products because they see nothing whatsoever wrong with it. If this is the case I have not personally seen evidence of it. But who knows. For sure we know Watchtower’s leadership is willing to lie. So we cannot trust Watchtower. On the other hand, it would be a fallacious to conclude because Watchtower is known to lie that in this instance it is lying (about its blood policy and shunning).
There is no secret that this subject is high on my list of priorities. Anyone remotely familiar with my work can see that. The discussion of whether Watchtower continues a policy to shun Witnesses for conscientious acceptance of certain blood products is something I follow closely, and with great interest. What I write above is not to challenge anyone who thinks Watchtower policy has changed. Rather, what I write is to continue and grow the subject for everyone’s sake. We know from non-Watchtower sources that thousands of Witnesses have died over Watchtower’s blood doctrine. ( More than 50,000 dead available at: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2012/02/more-than-50000-dead.html ) If Watchtower doctrine no longer has Witnesses shunned for conscientiously accepting blood products known as whole blood, red cells, white cells, platelets or plasma then we should announce it from the highest platform we can find, and make the announcement with convincing evidence for sake of saving lives.
As of now, based on Watchtower statistics and those gathered in the article cited just above, at least 2,000 preventable deaths are occurring annually among the Witness community. This is serious stuff and should not become a point of bickering among us who are trying to stop this madness. Let’s work together to find evidence one way or another on the subject at issue in this discussion.
The Subject:
Does Watchtower doctrine have Witnesses shunned for conscientious acceptance of the blood products known as whole blood, red cells, white cells, platelets or plasma, or not?
Marvin Shilmer
- DF's are no more for blood, non-neutral stance, joining other religions and some others they're now considered to have themselves DA'ed. This means the act of shunning is the same, the legal viewpoint is different (they took no action to DF, only took note that the person no longer wants to be a JW)
- In most cases, the JW leadership no longer DF's or DA's for blood issues. When I was faced with the issue, one elder at the HLC told me that most of it is a conscience matter and if we are weak and accept, just pray, Jeh. understands and will forgive us for it. When contacting HQ they pretty much decided not to get involved since it involved a minor.
- If you do accept blood, you may get DA'ed only if you do not grovel enough. You can't say you disagree, that is apostasy which is another offence unrelated to the blood issue and they have used that defense in court. But if you grovel and ask forgiveness and prayer they'll just let you be free.
What a chaotic shambles the discredited Blood Doctrine of the WT is ! and what nonsense the way they carry on after someone accepts a treatment to save their life.
It is disgusting that it is patently obvious the WT has albut abandoned the doctrine, but keeps a semblance of it going so they are not sued.
In the meantime poor benighted ignorant JW's die, all to keep the $$$ in the WT treasure chests, $$$ donated by the very ones they callously force to take their own lives.
The GB and their puppet masters disgust me.
