Atheism (page 82)

elderelite

Damn now my head hurts.... I cant figure if im the cat or the child....

Or the mommy :-O

palmtree67

Ya, sorry Tal-love, but you're losing me, too....

Not comprehending all your points.

Chappy, again - please keep talking. I'm listening. I'm following your train of thought and it's making sense to me.

That, along with some other things I'm currently reading - this whole episode is becoming crystal clear to me.

I remembered what it was like to be a believer that was emotionally invested in my beliefs. I have often stated that I can't always recall how I could have ever have thought as I did. This thread helped this come back to me. I think that is why I bristled a bit when James compared believers to children. Something didn't sit right with me on that, and I said so. As we continued to post, it became clearer to me how I used to feel. Which is what I brought out here.

Sizemik said it most eloquently. Rather than comparing them to children, he brought out the emotion behind the debate. It's good to know and remember. It's also good to acknowledge that there may be no way around it, and that shouldn't make us back down. If my brother had worried about my emotion and backed down, would I be here today? I don't know. His confidence really pissed me off, but maybe because I didn't feel as confident. I felt SURE, but when he would echo my statements back to me, they felt uncomfortable. So SURE and CONFIDENT were not the same thing for me---so I felt emotional.

I still don't think I would change anything when speaking to believers----other than to say I have a better awareness of what they are experiencing.

Does that make sense?

NC

tec

His confidence really pissed me off, but maybe because I didn't feel as confident. I felt SURE, but when he would echo my statements back to me, they felt uncomfortable. So SURE and CONFIDENT were not the same thing for me---so I felt emotional.

I do not feel this.

Sometimes I get annoyed at what seems to be a tone or a manner, but most of the time I squash that down to try and hear what is being said. To examine or reflect upon what is being said. Some points are very good. But that does not mean they don't have an answer.

Too often, when I thought I would not understand something, understanding was granted to me. I have learned that the answers always come. Always. Just not necessarily on demand, though sometimes. So it does not bother me not to know the answer to something yet.

I do not get emotional over it.

Peace,

tammy

NewChapter

Good for you. But I did get emotional and so do many believers. We've pretty much established that you don't follow the norms Tec. That's why the debates continue with you and don't deteriorate.

sizemik

Hi tal . . . thanks for the good wishes. I owe you an update . . . coming soon.

Emotions are damn handy tools . . . I have nothing against them, even the unpleasant ones. They can be unreliable motivators . . . but at the same time, excellent red flags and signposts for self-analysis. Understanding them better in ourselves is worthwhile for this reason . . . and for that to work we need to experience them.

Carrying them to the public stage is a seperate and distinct action when it comes to a forum . . . and should be done with care. We all feel emotion when we contribute here . . . but content should still be the main focus . . . of reader and writer.

tec

But I did get emotional and so do many believers

Point conceded.

Some people get quite defensive when their comfort zone is threatened, and doubts about faith is definitely a threat to a comfort zone.

I think that some atheists feel threatened when something that they have believed about religion or faith is shown to be wrong (or the counter-argument of what they think is strong enough to instill doubts for them) as well. Not being an athiest, I can only guess... but humans tend to have the same psychological make-up regardless of belief/non-belief.

Peace,

tammy

talesin

I am sorry, NC and Palm,,, I was directing my comments to FHN and her passive-aggressive comments. Maybe it's time I just left this place.

it's sad to me, to see the way that conversation and debate has degraded into personal insults and PA behaviour, with more ppl fighting, instead of joining in mutual cameraderie.

talesin

Size --- not to worry,, whenever... I was not worried,,, until you said you were sick! xoxo :)

NewChapter

I think that some atheists feel threatened when something that they have believed about religion or faith is shown to be wrong (or the counter-argument of what they think is strong enough to instill doubts for them) as well.

No. Not for me. We are often called on the carpet for making general statements that don't fit every believer. And it won't matter that I say a million times that I understand there are differences between believers and religions---but I've never been shown that what I believe about religion in general is wrong. Just that there are some that insist they don't belong in a particular bucket. But I understand religions---and I was a belever once. The only sense of threat I've ever felt is when people use political power to forward their agenda. Their ACTIONS. But none of their ideas make me feel threatened----I don't believe any of them.

NC

Atheism

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