Immortal life or Everlasting life?

by The Searcher 14 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  The Searcher

  It's very interesting that 1st Corinthians 15:53 has been cited in the Watchtower study articles last week and this week.

  That Scripture, speaking about humans, translates the Greek word 'athanasia' to mean 'immortality'. Can that be correct? The reason I question it is this - according to the "given understanding", the Greek Scriptures were written primarily for all those with the heavenly hope. OK, let's go along with that thinking just for 5 minutes. The term "everlasting life" (Gr. aionios) appears 46 times in the Bible - all in the Greek Scriptures.

  If immortality was what the writers (as well as Jesus) had in mind, then they were all pretty negligent in their use of the Greek language by not revealing such an incredible condition being promised, that of being immortal!

  The Reference Bible footnote correctly states that 'athanasia' literally means "deathlessness". (notlife within oneself) The hope held out to everyone exercising faith is exactly that - DEATHLESSNESS.

  Death will be no more (Rev. 21:4); the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing (1st Cor. 15:26); death & Hades will be hurled into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:14). No more death - deathlessness!!!! Vine's Expository Dictionary states that 'athanasia' "suggests the quality of the life enjoyed"

  Why would Jehovah give immortality to some who remained faithful for 70 years, but wouldn't bestow that privilege on angels who remained faithful for 6000 years in the face of Satan? Every person who survives the Great Tribulation should also qualify!

  There is absolutely no reason or justification to give anyone immortality - is everlasting life not enough?

  p.s. Think seriously what happens if you change this and other verses, where "everlasting life" is promised:

  (Matthew 19:16) Now, look! a certain one came up to him and said: "Teacher, what good must I do in order to get immortality?"
• 

  Nambo

  To muddy the waters a bit, I belive that Death is done away with at the end of the 1000 years, during Jesus 1000 reign people will still die.

  I wonder if the 100 years of Isaiah 65 v 20 are not a 100 year chance to learn good as the Witnesses teach, but the literal lifespan of people, those that are good come back in the ressurection at the end of the 1000, years, not at the beggining like the Witnesses teach, those that are bad get the second death.

  for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

  We also have the River of Water of Life that runs from Eziekiels temple, what would happen to people who didnt get to drink this?

  What was Gods original purpose for man?, that they had to eat from the tree of life, I think for folk on the Earth, there will be the same original arrangements for getting everlasting life, as long as one sticks to those arrangements, which is not the same as immortality.

  What happens after the 1000 years when detah is no more Iam unclear on.
• 

  Ucantnome

  immortal life
• 

  blondie

  The WTS position on "immortality" in heaven as a "spirit" as opposed to "everlasting life" on earth as humans is briefly this:

  Immortals do not depend on food and air and water to exist. They are given a portion of power and are self-sustaining, not even depending on God. Humans are given everlasting life but still need to eat, drink and breathe and thus are dependent on God and his creations. There is a QFR about this and it just puts the 144,000 and Jesus up even higher than anyone else except God. jws used to say that even God could not destroy someone with immortality, but the WTS amended that to say that IF they sinned--God could destroy them. Of course, none of this is based on any scripture, just the WTS pulling this thought out of their nether regions.

  -------------

  I always wondered if humans would have children after the final test, 1000 years after Armageddon, because they would not be tested.

  Blondie (just reporting not supporting)
• 

  The Searcher

  Paul wrote about "the one alone having immortality". This was first attributed to Jehovah then changed to apply to Jesus.

  Why would the source of life give immortality instead of everlasting life to any of his creatures? It would make such a creature totally indepent of his Creator and Source of Life!
• 

  The Searcher

  @Blondie;

  Can you please give me the reference for the QFR you quoted. I've hunted for it on the CD ROM, but with no success. (Helped me find other interesting articles though - such as QFR April 1st '84, as well as QFR July 1st '80 which claims both Christ's mediatorship and the New Covenant cease when the last of the heavenly-hopers arrives in heaven.

  (who thinks up these unscriptural and corrupt teachings which invalidate God's word??? - "There is one mediator between man & God")

  I would genuinely love to hear from any of my brothers or sisters in the Worldwide Order of Special Full-Time Servants of Jehovah’s Witnesses, to hear what their thoughts are on such contrary thinking. Are you "sighing and groaning?".
• 

  hamsterbait

  I remember this issue.

  A big fuss that the Great Crowd get "EVERLASTING" life but the annointed get immortality in Heaven.

  John 6 says that only those eating the flesh and blood of Christ have EVERLASTING life.

  Thre was a study on John 6 in Nov 2010, that pointed out this passage was addressed to people with either hope.

  Dont be surprised if they let everyone take the emblems and stop keeping a record of numbers.

  HB
• 

  Bobcat

  The Searcher said: There is absolutely no reason or justification to give anyone immortality

  I believe I found a reason. Of course, whether anyone accepts that is another thing. The reason is based on the universal sovereignty issue. That was recently discussed here and I commented twice on it. But since the flow of the arguement was decidedly against such an issue even existing, I decided to retire from the thread. I might add that the explanation (that I've arrived at) is neither simple nor short.

  Blondie said: I always wondered if humans would have children after the final test, 1000 years after Armageddon, because they would not be tested.

  I also believe I found an answer to this. It is somewhat hypothetical, as I base it on inferences from several verses. And it also is related to the idea of universal sovereignty that I refer The Searcher to above.

  You are right to point out that there could be no testing of new humans after the 'test' following the 1000 years since Satan and the demons would be gone for good.

  That leaves two possibilities: (1) It is necessary to test every human who will ever come into existence. And since no further testing would be possible, then, no further humans would come into existence. Or (2) The testing has a specific purpose for those humans alive at that time and the results of that test do not require later humans to be tested. This possibility would allow for more humans to come into existence. Of course, the finite size of planet Earth would pose a problem.

  Just as a 'teaser' of sorts, here are a couple of questions:

  Why is the universe (the various stars and planets) so big? Even with the Hubble, very few planets can actually be seen. So, obviously (that is, if one believes in creation), it's not all there for our (earthly) viewing pleasure.

  In regards to children, the Society likes to use the illustration of a cup being filled with water. According to them, you stop when it gets full. But is that the only way to solve that problem?

  Take care Searcher and Blondie - from one who enjoys your posts very much.
• 

  Inkie

  Searcher:

  If immortality was what the writers (as well as Jesus) had in mind, then they were all pretty negligent in their use of the Greek language by not revealing such an incredible condition being promised, that of being immortal!

  Keep in mind that Jaheshua (Jesus) did NOT speak or write in Greek, nor did most of the Bible writers. Paul, perhaps, may have thrown in a Greek word or two (maybe, but iffy), but pretty much the Bible writers of the "Christian Greek Scriptures" ORIGINALLY wrote in Aramaic or Hebrew. Thus, the "Greek" writings you are reading (if you are reading them) were written by writers well after the fact.

  So, please, don't accuse Jaheshua or the original writers of "negligen[ce]" in their us[age] of [a] language" they did not write in. That's a bit shoddy. (No offense intended.)

  --Inkie
• 

  Nambo

  This "test" at the end of the 1000 years business, can somebody convince me this is what the Bible says, or is it just another Watchtower doctrine that though we claim to have left the troof, we still adhere too?

  I cannot find anything that implies mankind is resurrected and trained for a 1000 years then "tested"?

  What I read is that there will still be literal nations, the ones Jesus rules with a rod of iron, and that only the Annointed get resurrected at the start of the 1000 years, these certainly dont get "tested", in fact they are the target of the nations that Satan leads against Jerusalem at the end of the 1000 years.

  Then comes the general resurrection, at the end of the 1000 years, and they are not "tested", but are judged according to what had previously been written about them in the book of life, thats why its called the judgement.

  5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

  6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

  7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

  8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

  9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.