How can I convince my mother the JW's are wrong? (page 2)

MC RubberMallet

(Luke

21:7-8) . . .Then they questioned him, saying: “Teacher, when will these things actually be, and what will be the sign when these things are destined to occur?” 8 He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them.

MC RubberMallet

Ask her to explain what that scripture means, what was Jesus saying? Then show her (with WT articles) how the WBTS fulfilled that role thoroughly.

MrFreeze

You can't convince her. She has to convince herself.

schnare

Ding, I don't she's confident enough to do D2D yet I think she would like to eventually, but she's trying to build her way there. Also she isn't even baptized, so I don't think it's really required or am I wrong? Abible Student, she probably wouldn't go anywhere near crisis of conscience. It would be from "satan" according to her probably. That verse sounds exactly like the watchtower especially the " The due time has approached" or "It's right around the corner".

witchtowerwitch

This is going to be an almost impossible task.They are so brain washed,that even experts have almost a 0 % chance of getting through to them.Good luck though,as they are constantly told that any outside information is from Satan,and that he is after there souls!With that kind of closed mind,their is not much that you can do!You have to ask her questions from the bible and witchtower articles,then it won't appear as your the enemy!But go slow and take a long time with this procedure !Again,good luck my friend!

FatFreek 2005

Hi Schnare,

You've already had some good suggestions. Mine is to try to keep it very simple, one main thought, one common thread which JW's cannot disagree with. The subject of contradictions. Watchtower and JW's hate 'em.

The following link is to THE GREAT WATCHTOWER CONTADICTION, an 11 minute read (if she'll read it) that's free and available online. She should have a WT Library CD -- please get her one if she doesn't have one. Otherwise she may not believe the more than 20 quotations from Watchtower literature that are found inside that essay. She has a better chance of believing them if they're on her own CD from her own kingdom hall.

Good luck,

Len

diamondiiz

If Watchtower is God's org, why do they misquote sccientists and historians? Ask her about the Creation brochure and why its full of misquotes you can find info on it here -> http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/misquotations-in-creation-book.html.

Why are their latest articles on destruction of Jerusalem (Oct, Nov 20111 watchtower) full of similar dishonesty regarding quotings historians and obmiting facts related to tablets? More Info can be found here and here.

Their book Life how did it get here by Evolution or Creation is also full of scientific quotes taken out of context, I don't have the link for these, but you can serach and find the info.

If they're God's org, why be dishonest if they've got nothing to hide. As for bible, what proof is there that name Jehovah appered in New Testament? Where's the proof? Dishonest once again.

But if your mother is under their spell, it's really little you can do to show her watchtower's deceit because she's just deny ignore and blame Satan for testing her and won't even look into the proof.

You can also ask her why Watchtower taught and preached that Jesus returned in 1874 for over 50 years and only officially changed the date to 1914 in 1943?

Black Sheep

You can't make conclusions for her. She has to arrive at them herself. Show her something, then ask her to do the explaining. You shut up and make her talk.

Never show her anything from a source she doesn't trust, or hasn't quoted from herself.

If you quote a WT publication and she claims it is altered, ask her to show you an original copy that she trusts. It is not up to you to provide the proof as she can just claim anything you provide is forged or altered.

Only talk about ONE subject at a time.

Noah preaching. Tell her you can't find any scripture in the Bible that says that Noah was under instructions to preach to save anyone other than his own family, so could she please find those scriptures and show them to you.

Do not ask her to explain the following QFR until she either admits that Noah wasn't under devine instructions to preach a warning, or until she has taken the entrenched position that he was, maybe even getting her to take the position that any person or religion who claims that Noah didn't have such an instruction is false/lying/untrustworthy/under the influence of Satan, etc. The deeper the hole she has dug for herself, the better.

Full text

Questions From Readers WT, 15 December, 2010

At Genesis 6:3, we read: “My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years.” Was Jehovah limiting the life span of humans to 120 years, and did Noah preach about the coming Flood for that long?

The answer to both parts of the question is no.

Prior to the Flood, many humans lived for centuries. Noah was 600 years old when the Flood came, and he lived to be 950. (Gen. 7:6; 9:29) Some who were born after the Flood also lived much more than 120 years. Arpachshad died at 438 and Shelah at 433. (Gen. 11:10-15) Yet, by Moses’ time, the normal life span was down to 70 or 80 years. (Ps. 90:10) So Genesis 6:3 was not fixing for humans a maximum or normal life span of 120 years.

Then, does that verse amount to a divine comment to Noah about warning others of the destruction to come in 120 years? No. On a number of occasions, God did speak to Noah. We read ten verses later in the account: “God said to Noah: ‘The end of all flesh has come before me, because the earth is full of violence.’” In the following years, Noah finished the massive task of building the ark, and at that point “Jehovah said to Noah: ‘Go, you and all your household, into the ark.’” (Gen. 6:13; 7:1) And there are other instances when Jehovah informed Noah of certain facts.—Gen. 8:15; 9:1, 8, 17.

However, Genesis 6:3 reads differently; it does not mention Noah, nor does it say that God was addressing him. It can be taken to be a simple expression of God’s purpose or determination. (Compare Genesis 8:21.) Significantly, in the historical record about developments long before Adam’s time, we find such expressions as: “God went on to say.” (Gen. 1:6, 9, 14, 20, 24) Obviously, Jehovah was not speaking to a human on earth, for man had not yet been created.

It is logical, therefore, to conclude that Genesis 6:3 expresses God’s resolve to end the corrupt system of things on earth. Jehovah issued a judicial decree to do so in 120 years, though Noah was not yet aware of that. But why set a time limit? Why wait?

The apostle Peter provides reasons: “The patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.” (1 Pet. 3:20) Yes, when God made his determination concerning 120 years, there were things remaining to be done. Some 20 years later, Noah and his wife began to have children. (Gen. 5:32; 7:6) Their three sons grew up and married, bringing the family up to “eight souls.” Then they had to build the ark, which was no quick task considering its size and the size of Noah’s family. Yes, God’s patience for 120 years allowed for those things to be accomplished and set the stage for the preservation of life, allowing eight faithful humans to be “carried safely through the water.”

The Bible does not specify the year in which Jehovah informed Noah that the Flood would occur. Inasmuch as his sons had been born, had grown up, and had married, possibly 40 or 50 years remained before the Flood. Then Jehovah said to Noah: “The end of all flesh has come before me.” He added that Noah was to build a huge ark and go into it with his family. (Gen. 6:13-18) During the remaining decades, Noah did more than provide an example of righteousness by his life. He served as “a preacher of righteousness” who had a very pointed warning message to declare—God’s determination to bring to ruin the ungodly of that time. Noah did not know long in advance in what year that would be, but he knew that it definitely would come. And you know that it did.—2 Pet. 2:5.

leaving_quietly

Be cautious using Noah as an example. 2 Pet 2:5, partially quoted in the article, says he was a "preacher of righteousness". Scholars agree that this meant he did some sort of heralding, perhaps against he wickedness of the day and of God's judgement. See some commentaries here:

http://bible.cc/2_peter/2-5.htm

I'd personally steer clear of using Noah as an example.

Black Sheep

leaving_quietly. I didn't quote 2 Pet 2:5. I quoted the Watchtower. The Watchtower QFR says no.

2 Pet 2:5 and he did not hold back from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a deluge upon a world of ungodly people;

Even this scripture does not say that Noah was given a commission to save anyone other than his own household, it just gives the reason for his being selected for saving. Anyone who wants to manipulate this scripture to read that Noah had a commission to save anyone else, also has to explain how 120 years of preaching, with Jehovah's blessing, yielded not a single conscript. Even Charlie Manson did better than that.

... and even if you can convince Schnare's Mum that this scripture does prove he preached a warning .... the Watchtower still said no in 2010 and hasn't gone back on it. This is Current Truth for the Dubbies and for Schnare's Mum, whether she likes it, or not.

How can I convince my mother the JW's are wrong?

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