Adam and Jesus in the scales.... Bull crap.

by snare&racket 23 Replies latest jw friends

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  snare&racket

  One of the hardest questions to answer if you believe in an all loving god, is why 'he' permits so much pain and suffering? Of course as imperfect, sinful humans we all know we could not bare to watch a day of human suffering without helping out, how could a god cope and not intervene for thousands of years....?

  The answer most of us all accepted was a pair of scales. Jesus was in one, Adam the other. Adam claimed that he and therefore we (I don't remember voting on this) could live without God and his rules, therefore the fairest thing God could do? Let Adams decision play out, let him make his own decisions, let him decide and know for himself good and bad !....ok seems fair. We all accepted this explanation.... But of course that is NOT what happened.

  In the mythical story God said to Adam... Ok chum.... You think you know better than me.... Well let's see..... Let's let the whole universe see in order to sanctify my name, in order to show my sovereignty and my right to rule.... From now on you can decide right from wrong and you can prove to the whole universe if you are better off listening to me or deciding for yourselves.... Ok......

  Oh one more thing... I am now removing your perfection, you will now get sick, you will now die, you will now feel pain, you will now deteriorate, you will now be sinners, YOU WILL NOW HAVE AN INNATE DESIRE TO DO WRONG...... Let's see what happens.....

  THAT WAS NOT PART OF THE DEAL! If you want to believe in this tripe, you have to realise that humans had no hope in this regard. To say that by letting suffering and pain exist is god just playing out a process in which he proves to all angels and onlookers in the universe etc that we NEED him....is not true or water tight. Once all this is mess is wrapped up, God can beat his chest and say "see! They need me!" ......an angel with a mind of his own could ask... "ok but how would mankind do if they were perfect? Maybe then they could rule themselves? Didn't you kinda bias the experiment a little there god?"

  After he strikes down the free thinking angel... All will worship him forever and ever amen.

  What was so wrong with the devil questioning gods right to rule, to demand worship from living things? After all this god went on to commit genocide against people that didn't know his rules and WEREN'T Jewish, so never could! He went on to command slavery, rape, kidnap, incest, infanticide, homophobia, racism, blood sacrifice and field service reporting.... Satan had a point!

  Again I find myself asking... Why the hell didn't I think of this obvious stuff at the time........ Doh!

  Adam and Jesus were not equal in the scales at all. Once Adam made that decision, the god of the bible doomed him to failure, in so doing denying any knowledge as to whether humans could live without him or not. Thankfully it's all made up bullshit.

  Snare
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  mP

  Adam is not a person, the name is a clue, it means man. Eve also means mother. The story is symbolic, andis not to be taken literally, after all since when did snakes talk and why would anyone take advice froma talking snake. Right after Cain kills Abel, he says that he needs protection from the local towns and cities, WTF! There is no commentary that states the story is about the first couple or first father and mother anywhere in the story.
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  snare&racket

  MP

  I am right with you, I am an atheist who has seen the evidence for eve and Adam being somewhat hairy and living in a tree. I just can't believe I didn't question such a obvious flaw in the explanation. God made Adams decision guaranteed to fail, THAT is not free will. THAT does not prove anything!

  Its like a child asking for independence from his parents. They say yes but claim he will come crawling back. They then don't just leave him to see what happens, but take all his money and clothing, they tell all the local businesses to not give him a job. They ensure society cuts him off and then inject him with heroine and say ...let's see what happens....let's see how easy it is for you to live without us!

  Hardly fair, it's majorly fuc*ed up!
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  elderelite

  I e often thought it was very passive agressive on the desert gods part. "oh you ate from my tree???? Fine. Get out and handle it yourself. Oh and let me give you this *death and disease magically given*. See how you like it now... Oh but if you kids are interested i am goingto take an angle and send him to be killed by some of your asshole great grand kids and then we will call it even" Really people????? Really????? V
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  mP

  @elderite

  the story is not about morals or the origin of mankind. Its merely an attempt by the authors to show that a common man (Adam=man] and woman(all women are good for in the OT is to breed = mother] should obey their masters. Jehovah in early genesis is said to be walking about the garden unware of some recent events. This shows that Jehovah is not a universal god but simply a king prototype. The king wants the common man to be dumb and remain fiathful to his whim and wishes. By controlling knowledge the king can direct and take advantage of the illterate. Back in those days knowledge of the seasons was very valuable, tehre were times to plant and times to harvest. This is part of the motivation for earliest man to look and study the stars as a calendar. The zodiac and astrology was originally a study of time. After sometime myths and fantastic stories were created. Given those in power are almost always liars, its not surprising they then stated they were appointed by god as rulers. We can find the same thing today, Elizabeth II has on her coat of arms in french that literally mean, she rules because it is her god given right.
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  factfinder

  @snare&racket-

  and don't forget God also sent Satan and his demons down to the earth to cause suffering and rule the world!

  that proves God's right to rule and man can't do so successfully independent of God!

  I also wonder how I ever believed this nonsense.
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  JakeM2012

  What kind of reasoning do you think an organization will base their view of the scriptures on when you have lawyers (Rutherford) writing the WT publications? The whole idea of the balanced scales of justice and santification of God's name just doesn't fit. If it doesn't fit you must acquit.
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  elderelite

  Mp, comming from a fundamentalist backround means taking the bible litteraly. As in one man and woman started it all. I dont disagree that it is viewed more liberaly and moralistically now, but dubbies still take it as literal
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  mP

  @elderite

  The problem is fundys may be taking the bible literally but they are going in with many implanted thoughts and not reading the words for what they say and what they meant to the original authors. Nearly all xians blame satan for speaking like a ventroloquist thru the snake, when the text mentions nothing of this and simply says a snake spoke to eve.
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  designs

  Saint Paul invented a Judaism that didn't exist to con a gullible Gentile world. Our Freddie took a page from the Pauline playbook.