what you said Chairkio
Jehovah hates magic?
by jean-luc picard 23 Replies latest jw friends
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breakfast of champions
Magic can be defined as something "that surpasses all known human and natural powers and is usually attributed to some sort of supernatural power". . .
Oh, sorry, that's actually the definition of "miracle" from the August 2012 Wt public edition, page 3.
So what the whole magic=bad/miracle= good thing does is split a person's worldview up nice and neat into two camps. It's just an extension of totalistic black-and-white thinking that is necessary to maintain the JW worldview.
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caliber
Nuclear power is neither good nor bad. Tt is a physical property that exists, like gravity or chemistry which has no inherent moral value assigned to it. Whether that property is used for "good" or "bad" all depends on how it is used and what values are assigned to that use. The Earth, for example, uses naturally occurring nuclear power to keep the iron core molten. This spinning molten iron creates the magnetic waves that form a protective shield around the Earth that keeps out the cosmic rays that would destroy our atmosphere and all life on Earth. In this case, all but the most misanthropic wretch would agree that nuclear power is used for the good of mankind ( thus intent and purpose is everything )
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Chariklo
Caliber wrote
Magic intends to astonish..to focus attention on power itself.Miracles were to address
real needs of people. Jesus resisted the power to use miracles for his own
benefit during his "in the desert test. "It would have been a misuse godly spirit or power
just as the expression goes" guns don't kill people... people kill people"Breakfast of champions wrote
So what the whole magic=bad/miracle= good thing does is split a person's worldview up nice and neat into two camps. It's just an extension of totalistic black-and-white thinking that is necessary to maintain the JW worldview.
There in those two responses we have a nice little proof that the Watchtower employs magic to maintain and bolster up its worldview, or, maybe even more accurately, to reinforce its world view in the minds of its folowers and its prey.
For I can't currently think of an organisation more focused on power for itself and for total control of whoever amongst the world population it can deceive and manipulate. Deception, illusion, hypnosis, mind-control, total world domination...just wipe away the opposition...they've got it all.
All they need is the magic wand.
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Juan Viejo2
Professional magicians are the first ones to tell you that there is no such thing as "magic," only illusion. Many have spent years researching and chasing down reports of so-called "real magic" - but not a single example has ever been found. There are some amazing, and in some cases, unexplainable examples of visual trickery. In most cases, even the most amazing magic can be explained with a little research.
An excellent movie from 2006, "The Illusionist," starring Edward Norton and Paul Giamatti, demonstrates this quite well. Harry "Houdini" spent his life looking for evidence of real spiritism and unexplained magicians' tricks. I've seen some amazing tricks on YouTube and in other videos that defy explanation, but in every case it always boils down to slight-of-hand, misdirection, or some mechanical prop that makes everything work.
When I was younger I worked for the telephone company in Hollywood, California. On at least two occasions I had to make service calls at famed Magic Castle in the Hollywood Hills. This was in the late 1960s, so things may have changed a lot since then, but in those days the telephone equipment was located near a workshop-storage room. I seem to recall having to sign a form agreeing to keep anything I saw confidential. If I was found to have given away any professional secrets, both my company and I individually could be sued for breach of confidence. When our technicians had to go there, most of the devices were carefully hidden away or covered with sheets or tarps. Anything visible was usually just a plain aluminum frame or a table of some type.
Uri Geller, self proclaimed psychic, used common magician's tricks to convince millions that he was something special and that he was not using magic. The "Amazing Randi" is noted for his work of exposing so-called "real magicians, psychics, mind readers, and holy men" - all who use basic parlor tricks to convince their audiences that they have a special gift that can not be purchased by anyone with $10 at a magic store located in a nearby strip mall.
The Watchtower is acting in a criminal manner by suggesting that a simple plastic toy could have any special power or satanic influence. You can now add Sparlock to Watchtower's fairy tales of Adam and Eve, the talking snake, Noah's ark, and Jonah and the "big freaking fish" (but not a whale).
I watched a preacher on TV one night proclaim that any version of the Bible that was not the Authorized King James of 1611 was "written by the Devil himself!" He went on to say that Jesus said everyone of the words as printed in that Bible just as they were written - even the "thees" and "thous"! He went on to say that if you read one of the modern translations you will instantly be possessed by Satan. Any sane person would recognize that the preacher was either insane or a total liar in every sense, and yet his followers nodded their heads in agreement along with their constant "amens" to every word he said.
And thus sayeth the Watchtower Governing Body. "If we say that plastic toys made in China or India can act on the Devil's behalf and can some how influence or weaken Jehovah's powers, that is 'the truth' as given us by holy spirit."
F'ing ridiculous and f'ing fraudulent.
JV
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mrsjones5
I think jehovah hates magic that he isn't given credit for.
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bats in the belfry
mrsjones5 >> I think jehovah hates magic that he isn't given credit for.
Exactly. If he is doing it himself or one of his croonies then it's all miracles. If Yang does it, then it's all considered black magic eminating from the dark side of the force.
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cedars
Well said Juan Viejo2!
Another thing I noticed about the animated "Lesson 2" film was the number of unanswered or poorly chosen questions in the exchange between Caleb and his Mom.
For example, Caleb asks to go and see the film, but his Mum DOESN'T answer the question, and responds with "Oh your friend gave it to you...", i.e. Caleb's Mom doesn't wish to dignify her son's plea with an answer. Her son's feelings aren't worthy of consideration.
Then there is a series of poorly asked / ill-considered questions regarding magic during the interrogation session at the dining table.
Mom: "Is this toy magical?" Caleb: "Uh-huh." WRONG - correct answer would be "No mother, it is representative of a fictional character who uses magic, but the toy itself isn't magical - the reason being that it is just a toy."
Mom: "Who likes magic, Jehovah or Satan?" Caleb: "Satan" WRONG AGAIN - if he'd been a bit older Caleb could have checked his dictionary, and quoted it to his mother. My dictionary defines magic as the "supposed art of controlling things by supernatural power". Caleb could have turned the question round and said: "Who controls things with supernatural power mother, Jehovah or Satan? I think you will find that both are said to, but the over-riding example of someone doing this in the bible is Jehovah, since he used supernatural power to create the universe, including Satan. Does that answer your question, Mommy dear?"
Mom: "Magic is bad. That's why Jehovah hates it. Do you really wanna play with something that Jehovah hates?" Caleb: NO ANSWER! If his Mom had given him time to answer instead of pressing on with her manipulative agenda, Caleb could have offered a reply along the lines of: "No Mommy, I don't want to play with a toy that anyone hates including Jehovah, but you haven't explained to me why playing with this toy is connected with magic and will therefore invoke the wrath of God. Could you clarify that bit for me?"
Mom: "So what if you disobey Jehovah, and play with toys he doesn't like?" Caleb: NO ANSWER.
Mom: "Do you think Jehovah will be happy, or sad?" Caleb: (under duress) "Sad." WRONG. He should have said: "Well Mom, you still haven't explained to me why Jehovah has such strong feelings over lifeless lumps of plastic that are fashioned into fictional characters. Perhaps if you can clear that major issue up we can move this discussion forward?"
Mom: "So what do YOU think you should do with this toy?" - Arguably the most overtly manipulative question she asks in the whole film. She hasn't established through her questioning that ANYTHING should be done with this toy. She hasn't even established that it makes Jehovah sad. Even if it makes Jehovah sad and Caleb decides not to play with it, he has the option of (1) putting it away somewhere and not playing with it, (2) giving it back to his friend, (3) giving it to a charity shop, (4) destroying it. Obviously, they pick the most drastic option.
And after all that, neither Caleb nor the audience are any the wiser as to why God hates magic, or why he doesn't like wizard toys.
Sheer madness.
Cedars
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Hermano
Thanks for the quote Blondie. Reminds me of the Pharisees accusing Jesus of being in cahoots with the devil because he cast out demons. According to the Bible, Jesus didn't buy that BS, why should we?
Same goes for violence. Supposedly Jehovah hates violence. Unless he's the one being violent. Then it's reason for cheer.
I can't think about it too much, the blatant contractions will make my head explode!