God's Inception Style Punishment of Toddlers

Simon

This is a follow up to Jehovah kicks a puppy about the Garden of Eden / Serpent myth and the punishment for disobeying god.

Anyone who has had kids knows that that they need to be taught what is right and what is wrong. It's no point trying to discipline them if they have't learnt the rules first - they simply and fundamentally don't know something is wrong so punishing them in anyway is just asshole parenting of the worst kind.

i.e. toddlers draw on the wall, that's what they do. That's why the world invented wipe-clean paint for parents with kids. Is their intent to do bad? No, of course not - they think they are making you an awesome picture, the kind you normally ooh and ahh over. So instead of punishing them you kindly teach them that the wall isn't the place to draw and only punish them if they do it with a spray can when they are 16 because hey, they should know by then.

The bible myth has god condemning Adam and Eve and all their offspring to death, pain and suffering and for what?

Because they disobeyed.

And what was it that they did? They ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Um, say what now?

How are they supposed to know they were doing bad if the thing that was bad is the thing that lets them know what is good and bad? Yes, it's like Inception!

How could they know there was such a thing as deception? Of disobeying until they had disobeyed if the disobedience itself is required to know what is right and wrong?

Does god's punishment seem at all fair? First he's kicking puppies, now he's slapping toddlers. He may as well sign up as an NFL tight end right now.

It's like spanking a young child after their 10 year old sister gave them a crayon and sat them in front of the wall.

The fundamental problem with the plot is: how do you know something is wrong if the something that is wrong is the thing that lets you know what is right and wrong?

Inception.

New day

But even if they did not fully understand why it was wrong, they were told that it was wrong. They didn't need to do it to get the point. Ok, once they had done it they realised their mistake, but the argument is that they should have trusted that God was warning them for a good reason.

Finkelstein

Good point Simon

There has to be a learning experience to know what is right or wrong from consequential effects,

particularity from ones who were said to be born perfect.

How were Adam and Eve possibly to know what was punishment ?

whathehadas

Going further with the consequence of disobeying God. How would they know what Death is?

Finkelstein

How were Adam and Eve to know what was death, if they have never seen death ?

God supposedly warned them as seen in this verse.

The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." (NIV, Genesis 2:15-17)

Simon

But even if they did not fully understand why it was wrong, they were told that it was wrong.

How would they understand the concept of "wrong"?

They didn't need to do it to get the point. Ok, once they had done it they realised their mistake, but the argument is that they should have trusted that God was warning them for a good reason.

The warning that they would "die" ... how would they know what that meant?

Like many bible stores, it makes no sense if you analyze it or even just think about it for more than a second.

They are simply stories, not factual accounts or explanations for anything.

So where does this leave the inverted pyramid of beliefs based on them?

whathehadas

The thing that makes it worse, is the punishment and death of Adam and Eve's children. Punishment for those that had NOTHING to do with their parents decision process

Simon

The thing that makes it worse, is the punishment and death of Adam and Eve's children. Punishment for those that had NOTHING to do with their parents decision process

It get's even better ... let's play some "what if's" ...

How long was the tree going to be there to test people? A day? A week? Until they had kids? Forever?

Suppose it was always going to be there as a test of obedience for them and their offspring. Seems fair, right?

Now, one of their descendants eats from it. I mean, what are the chances that you'd have 100% strict compliance forever right? So they eat ... and then they and their offspring are going to die.

Would we still get the 'ransom' sacrifice? For that half of mankind ... I mean, do the numbers matter? At a certain point as many would have lived as lived if all were descended from them.

How would the world work with half the people immortal never-sinners and the rest murderous wretches who have fallen short due to their idiot great great great grandfather.

sparrowdown

This story just doesn't make sense on so many levels.

If Eve being the youngest of the pair, was "thoroughly decieved" then why does she need to be punished. You wouldn't punish a toddler who accepts candy from a predator you would be grateful nothing worse happened and never leave them alone again. Oh and teach them about stranger danger while you're at it you deadbeat parent.

And here's a thought - if you don't want your children to eat cookies don't leave a giant opened jar of them in the centre of the room with a talking sock puppet inviting them to eat them.

SafeAtHome

I just remember learning (50+ years go) that Adam and Eve knew what death was because they saw the animals die. Was that in the Bible or just an assumption by the JWs?

God's Inception Style Punishment of Toddlers

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