Why no monkey stories?(evolution)

sleepy

(The title is hyperbole bt the way as is the use of ape, I just didn't know the name of the creature that is supposed to have developed speech))

Something is puzzling me about the history of humankind and the stories that have been passed down through generations as fact. The various histories of how man came to be.
Which leads me to the question,
Should human oral and written history be taken more seriously?

Why so?
Well lets consider. Now I am not an expert on ancient cultures so I could be wrong , but as far as I am aware none or very few of the creation myths that have come down to us through time talk of human origins being that of animals who gradually became human.
Would we expect to see this?
Well lets consider. If at one time some of the ape like creature from which we are supposed to be descended from learn to communicate by speech. Of course this happens gradualy.Maybe some in a group learn to understand and communicate with each other. These have offspring who inherited this ability and these ape break away from the other groups who can not communicate well. Of course they don't have perfect flowing speech but over time this develops while other similar apes remain speechless. Wont then this ape men notice that there are other like them but which cannot communicate through speech? Will this then be passed on down through their offspring?
Why does human history not contain these stories that humans came from the apes.?
Instead around the world we get these stories.
Human life came when Gods came down from the heavens and made man.
Now there are many variations on these themes but basically with have alien beings (Gods)coming from space(the heavens) who are somehow involved in human life.
We also have a sudden outbreak of art and civilisation only 6 or 7 thousand years ago.
Also we note that humans are very different to every other creatures. In which way?
Well the main most unique defining aspect of humans is their consciousness.
No other animal is conscious like a human being .In fact humans are more different to a monkey than a monkey is to a worm or a fish. The human mind with its consciousness should not be ignored as some trivial matter, it is what we are.
So why do ancient cultures continually speak of beings from outer space? Why the obsession with the stars and constellations? With Gods and religion?
Are we ignoring a vital clue about human origins by believing that the foundation of these stories is just a myth?
I am not making the claim here that these ancient stories are true , but it is possible that they could be based on some truth .Maybe human like creature did evolve on earth but late in our history there was some outside help.
Or maybe none of this is true and very early humans could not understand that they came from similar creatures that they saw around them or they did and these stories were lost , replaced by ones talking of Gods and strange creatures.
What do you think?

(Just putting my crash helmet on and waiting for the backlash)

larc

Early peoples had no idea where they came from. They had no idea about how basic phenomena of nature worked either. So, what they did was place causality onto a God or a multitude of God's. So, in this context, they made up stories about how a god created them.

Seeker4

Just a couple of points to consider.

First: The "outbreak" of art and culture goes back tens of thousands of years. The cave paintings in France, for instance, date back at least 20-30,000 years, accurately dated in a number of ways.

The change to an agrarian society (farming) that has resulted in what you're calling "civilization" goes back 10,000 years or more.

Stories of gods and all of that seems to have developed as humankind developed a realization of death. As humans created ritual burials, and began to death, along came religion. Religion is essentially the mythologies that humans developed to get us past the fear of death - big daddy and mommy gods out there who punish or watch over us, and control our destiny after we die. Religion also gave one group - the priests - power, which made it attractive to some. Give a small group power and control and keep the masses quiet, content and obedient, which became all the more important in the agrarian cultures. Got to keep those folks working in the fields, you know. Don't want any goddamn pesky independent hunters around, acting and thinking for themselves.

Your thoughts about the "talking apes" etc. are just too silly to respond to. Maybe a little study and research is in order.

S4

sleepy

Hello Larc.
You said
"Early peoples had no idea where they came from."
But this is the point in question.Did they infact have some idea?

"They had no idea about how basic phenomena of nature worked either. So, what they did was place causality onto a God or a multitude of God's"
Yes their lack of understanding many aspects of nature could be used to show that the idea of a "God" is just one of their misunderstandings.
But many ancient cultures did have a good grasp on some important principles , witness the pyrimids of Giza and other ancient structures also many had a good understanging of astrology hence the many monuments that are linked to postions of the Sun , moon and stars.
Why should so many ancient cultures make up the idea of a God etc.If you are brough up today without the belief in a God forced on you it will not be an instinctive option to belive in a God.

sleepy

seeker
"Your thoughts about the "talking apes" etc. are just too silly to respond to. Maybe a little study and research is in order."

"Ape like creature"actually.Which is what humans are .
Please explain why this is so sillyas at some point speech would have to have become common place weather they were more ape like or human like is just a point of definition.

larc

In the history of mankind, the pyramids are rather new. I am talking about much earlier in time. Fourty thousand years ago, the Neanderthals became extinct, either because homo sapiens wiped them out or because they could not adapt to the changing climate. Why would homo sapiens believe they came from an inferior species. It is more nobel to think that humans came from a higher place a place of the Gods.

julien

sleepy,
First of all the transition from apelike to humanlike likely took place over hundreds or thousands of generations. Each generation only saw themselves and a few before and after perhaps. It is most likely that by the time speech developed (and hence oral record of history) they were quite humanlike already.

But more importantly, do you have any idea what sort of man your great great great grandfather was? How about any of your ancestors before grandparents or great-grandparents? I'm guessing no.
So why would you expect early man to have reliable information about theirs?

Francois

Seeker4, you said, "Your thoughts about the "talking apes" etc. are just too silly to respond to. Maybe a little study and research is in order." Too silly?

Let me remind you that when the first steam locomotives were about to be put into use, the learned men - the medical guys - said that these new devices could never be used for mass transportation of any living thing because, "at 20 miles an hour, no living thing could breathe."

And when the first guy filled a tube with mercury, upended it and placed it in a bowl of the same element, there was a space at the top of the tube where there was no mercury or anything else. The guy damn near lost his life when the learned men of his time - the priests - said that the vacuum that the experimenter claimed was in the top of the tube was impossible because God was, "everywhere."

Then there was the guy who wanted to close the patent office in 1900 because everything had been invented already.

And even Chas. Watson, of IBM, said that there was probably a market of perhaps as many as eight computers in the entire world.

Silly?

Seems to me that you're not only silly, but ignorant too.

Francois

NOTE TO GOVERNING BODY: You've been challenged to a debate, boys. Dont you have ANY balls?

sleepy

By the way the title ( Monkey stories)is just an exaggeration.

It doen't matter how long it takes for full speech to develope
If they could speak whether they wre hominids or not they would notice others around who were not as advanced.Why wouldn't they have told stories?
If you can speek you can tell stories.

Today we have mentally retarded people these are in the minority , but then wouldn't it be the other way round?
You would hve to have groups of human like creatures going around similar but retarded in some ways.
why no stories about these?

"But more importantly, do you have any idea what sort of man your great great great grandfather was? How about any of your ancestors before grandparents or great-grandparents? I'm guessing no.
So why would you expect early man to have reliable information about theirs?"
The point is they did have stories about their ancestors.
Were they based on any reality?

All anyone can do is guess , because they weren't there at the time.

Satanus

sleepy

Hinduism contains evoltionary teachings. This includes evolution of space into water, water into earth, earth into vegetation, vegetation into higher forms. Also, it has spiritual evolution. See the following: http://www.ignca.nic.in/ps_04005.htm

SS

Why no monkey stories?(evolution)

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