I'm getting more and more frustrated . . .

Flat_Accent

So last friday we had our regular visitor over. One of the single brothers from my former hall. We were decent friends when I was still attending meetings, but since my departure we don't have a lot in common. Unfortunately, I'm outnumbered 3-1 at the dinner table, so I always assume the conversation will lean towards God/Armageddon/Last Days.

The other week he'd had a go at Obama's recent comments on Gay Marriage, how he thought Obama was 'crazy' and homosexuality was 'unnatural'. I had a hard time not speaking my mind about this, but I let it lie.

This time we were talking science, so I prepared myself for the asshattery that was about to commence.

There had been a show on that week about the transition of Venus. Instead of focusing on the event itself, or what we might learn about our solar system from it, he instead focused on how irritated he was with the presenters. I actually hadn't watched the show, but I could imagine them bringing up the subject of extraterrestrial life, or life outside our galaxy.

"What annoys me is how they talk about all this, like they already know everything, when really they know nothing." He said.

I could see where he was going immediately, and decided to play the fool and make him spell it out. I asked him what he meant by that.

"Well they mention things like the Big Bang, but it's just a guess, only a theory."

I quickly replied before he could change subject. "You know Gravity is 'only a theory', right?"

"Yeah right! Why don't you jump off the roof and then tell me whether Gravity is still a theory!", while my dad simply said "No it's not."

I went on to explain what scientific theory is, and why it doesn't just mean 'a hunch', and then strung off a list of theories I had remembered, none of which they take umbrage with (I didn't say the E word, but I'm sure they understood what the implications meant by this REAL definition of theory.)

There was no real retort to that, so instead he went along with his next point of contention;

"I couldn't believe it, they see all the stars up there, and the billions of galaxies, and they refuse to acknowledge, or even say 'there must be a creator.'"

Wait wait. Go back. What was that first complaint you had?

"What annoys me is how they talk about all this, like they already know everything, when really they know nothing."

So you want to have a go at the people who spend their lives studying and learning about life and the universe, and make evidence based theories, but you're totally fine claiming off the cuff that you know there was a creator? What's more, you know exactly which creator it was, what his plan is, and what his likes and dislikes are?

I need to get out of this house.

Starr_Kachina

I would have loved to have been sitting at that table with you... trying to hold back the smirks and fake "choking" on food while I listened to your buddy try and act like he knows all the answers of the universe. I guess I don't have it so bad. No one in my family speaks to me anymore and neither do any of my so-called friends that I grew up with in the WTS... and I'm not even DF'd or DA'd. Although, I've been considering DA'ing myself. Anyway, thanks for a good read. I like the way you narrate... quite comical! :-)

InterestedOne

So you want to have a go at the people who spend their lives studying and learning about life and the universe, and make evidence based theories, but you're totally fine claiming off the cuff that you know there was a creator? What's more, you know exactly which creator it was, what his plan is, and what his likes and dislikes are?

Did you actually say this to him, or did you just think it? It is a good thought, and I wonder how he would have responded. Did the discussion just end with his "there must be a creator" comment?

Flat_Accent

I didn't say it. I don't wanna push arguments too much, and get myself in trouble. But yes, I'd like to have seen the look on his face as well. Haha xD

Thanks guys. Starr you sound like a trouble causer, too! I try not to laugh, though I couldn't help myself once during a discussion on paradise.

After that he shut up and we watched the football.

MidwichCuckoo

It's so frustrating - I think sometimes they actually believe they have studied everything Scientifically relevant by flicking through a back issue of 'Awake!'

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

"I couldn't believe it, they see all the stars up there, and the billions of galaxies, and they refuse to acknowledge, or even say 'there must be a creator.'"

Even my parents stay clear of that since I explained the problem of infinite regression. If everything had to be created, who created god? But with JWs, trying to use logic is like trying to nail jello to the wall.

Flat_Accent

Nice analogy, Billy. I'll save that one for later.

Infinite regression wouldn't work on my parents, or my dad in particular. He's argues on the premise that he's already right, no matter the evidence.

Starr_Kachina

Flat_Accent,

I used to be a very "goody two shoes" JW growing up. I never questioned anything (out loud) even though I had many doubts growing up. However, those went unexpressed and eventually pushed into the back of my mind. I didn't want to be a "doubting Thomas" and end up being on the "outside looking in" as my older brother once said to me. It took me 31 years to wake up and here I am, at 34, still waking up. Thank goodness for these forums, sites, etc. I have known for about a solid year now that something was very, very wrong with the way I grew up. Within the past year, I've had many lightbulb moments, one of which was "Wow! I have never known unconditional love."

00DAD

Billy,

Here's a website you might enjoy:

HOW TO NAIL JELLO TO A WALL

JELLO

outsmartthesystem

Billy beat me to it.

JWs cannot fathom a universe creating itself out of basically nothing. Impossible they say. Yet when asked about the impossibility of God having no creator they turn silent. Somehow that is reasonable

I'm getting more and more frustrated . . .

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