Does Mind Control Exist? (page 2)

Guest 77

As they say Randy, if 'brainwashing and mind control does not exist' I have some swamp land for sale!

What's all this, TERRORISM on TV and newspapers? Reminders? Gimmmee me a break.

Guest 77

plmkrzy

I still prefer Coke over Pepsi

"The fellow that agrees with everything you say is either a fool or he is getting ready to skin you."
- Kin Hubbard

larc - I grew up in an abusive home. We were beaten, tortured, made fun of and sexually abused. Just because that is what my parents were taught by their parents (who thought it was OK) doesn't mean it is the right way to bring up children. Whether the abuse is physical or sexual or emotional or spiritual it is still wrong and hurtful. There are healthy ways to bring up children. There are healthy ways to educate people and to teach children about God. The JWs do not practice heathy ways of teaching anyone. A healthy way would include the continued ability to ask questions - a 2-way discussion about topics. The JWs forbid this kind of open discussion. To ask questions for further clarification after you are baptized means sanctions.

When a parent raises a child in a healthy environment it includes unconditional love. Jesus taught it. Parents are capable of it. JWs are not allowed to show it. If the org says stop showing how much you love someone they do it - or risk being sanctioned themselves. Nothing healthy about that - or even Christian

Rejoice in the healing and not in the pain.
Rejoice in the challenge overcome and not in the past hurts.
Rejoice in the present - full of love and joy.
Rejoice in the future for it is filled with new horizons yet to be explored. - Lee Marsh 2002

waiting

Hi larc,

There's all kinds of loaded words being brought forth here - and, as can be shown by past threads, can be misconstrued or wrought with emotions.

innocence
guilt
willfull
parental guidance
healthy ways
unconditional love
blame
feel
not our fault
willing participants
game

And that's just the responses to the original essay on Brain washing, Thought Reform, & Mind Control.

Examples, even our own life examples, can be given - but I believe the essay was speaking of the actual structure of the organization. For instance:

Thought reform is not mysterious. It is the systematic application of psychological and social influence techniques in an organized programmatic way within a constructed and managed environments (5,7,8,9,10). The goal is to produce specific attitudinal and behavioral changes. The changes occur incrementally without its being patently visible to those undergoing the process that their attitudes and behavior are being changed a step at a time according to the plan of those directing the program.

That would be what you're speaking about?

In society, there are numerous elaborate attempts to influence attitudes and modify behavior. However, thought reform programs can be distinguished from other social influence efforts because of their totalistic scope and their sequenced phases aimed at destabilizing participants' sense of self, sense of reality, and values.

That would be "going over the top" in teaching a child, an employee, a mate, an Indian or Amish.

I believe that you've brought out before that the main threads behind the WTBTS's teachings on child rearing are negative - thus setting up the child for negativity in his world and within himself - ie. RedHorseWoman's account of her pioneering/physical breakdown.

If an organization was knowingly structured to teach parents to wrongly discipline their children - ie. shunning, lost schooling, friends, association, etc. - and the parents did this because the organization said to, even though it hurt the parents to do it.......wouldn't that be a form of mind control.

True, the responsibility lies at the parents' feet ultimately, but who empowered the parents to behave that way? Who empowered the parents to whip their children with "The Rod of Discipline" in the name of God?

True again, many socieities, organizations, practice negative disciplines, and you've used the Amish as an example before. But just because the Amish practice shunning, doesn't make shunning correct. It just means that the jw's and the Amish practice shunning.
A correlation?

Thought reform is accomplished through the use of psychological and environmental control processes that do not depend on physical coercion. Today's thought reform programs are sophisticated, subtle, and insidious, creating a psychological bond that in many ways is far more powerful than gun-at-the-head methods of influence. The effects generally lose their potency when the control processes are lifted or neutralized in some way. That is why most Korean War POWs gave up the content of their prison camp indoctrination programs when they came home and why many cultists leave their groups if they spend a substantial amount of time away from the group or have an opportunity to discuss their doubts with in intimate (11).

I always thought how the Koreans managed (somewhat peacefully) to "communicate" with the pow's fascinating. Find something to talk about, agree, slowly ask questions, slowly pull in a negative, then another, then another, make the pow question his own staunch ethics, then help the pow break down his own beliefs to the point he doesn't even bother to try and escape - all the while, maintaining a sort of friendliness.

Very successful to the point that it was deeply studied - so that the next group of pows wouldn't fall victim to that type of "thought reform" - or whatever nametag is put to it.

Were the prisoners responsible? To a degree - because I don't think they were put in prison after the war for just sitting there. But it took education and reasoning with the next group of soldiers to fight this sort of teaching. They just didn't see the enemy coming their way.

I agree with you on the aspect that many jw's - if not all - have twinges - damn near migranes of doubt/questions - and they push them aside, as they've been taught. But in the end, we are responsible for ourselves. If we need it - get help.

That couple who held their daughter down and beat her to death - 49 whips done twice - will find it hard to justify to the courts that they were disciplining her because they were told to do that by jw's. JW's don't even want to be tied to that tragedy. But ultimately, the parents killed that young girl.

waiting

anewperson

They say it's one of those "sacred secrets of the kingdom," the MOLDING of those who are among "the meek who will inherit the earth" and therefore the means justify the ends, a kind of giant social experiment for a New World Society. Mind control is dangerous and demonistic, practised among not just JWs but LDS, Scientology and other daughters of the deceptive two-faced old spiritual whore Babylon the Great. (Re 18:4)

Dogpatch

Hi Beans,
Sorry I don't recall what you were asking about, unless you mean the Awake of Sept. 22, 1984 on "An Open or Closed Mind--Which Do You Have?" which is pretty revealing. :-))
Randy

Beans

That could be it Randy,I will do my research!

Thanks
Beans

logical

People as a whole need to WAKE UP! They have been hypotised by their evil governments, they obey each and every letter printed in the media, and its all bullshit.

Telling someone mind control doesnt exist is just like drawing on someones face and telling them your not drawing on their face.

That article is mind control in itself.

Mind control is everywhere, not only in religion, but EVERYWHERE. Religion is the ultimate evil, but there are evils apart from religion also.

Lady Lee

Couldn't agree with you more logical. Mind control groups are social, political, psychological, financial... you name it. The techniques can be applied to all forms of groups - even a group of 2 as in husband and wife.

Rejoice in the healing and not in the pain.
Rejoice in the challenge overcome and not in the past hurts.
Rejoice in the present - full of love and joy.
Rejoice in the future for it is filled with new horizons yet to be explored. - Lee Marsh 2002

proplog2

I believe in mind control. Society would not be possible without it. We all are trying to bridge the gap that we feel separates us from others. The best defense against mind control requires a rigourous effort to develop logical thinking skills. Learn a few common falacies. By the way Singer is paranoid at this point. She refers to anyone that doesn't share her viewpoint on cults as cult apologists.

The dsmIV intentionally removed the word "cult". Is Singer still a member in good standing of the APA?

Does Mind Control Exist?

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