To ALL Those with "Ears" to "Hea...

by AGuest 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Ahhhhh... Daddy-O... the greatest of love and peace to you!

    Tell me, is it such a LARGE thing that is asked of us, truly? Let me ask you and you tell me:

    Which is easier: to GIVE our own flesh and blood? Or to eat the flesh and blood of the One that gave his? Which would YOU prefer to have to do?

    Personally, since He's not asking ME to lay down my life on behalf of the whole world, but only to "eat and drink" from the One that did, I got NO problem. Such a little thing to ask, really. Tiny, in fact. Minute. A bite and a sip. I can do that.

    But, then, I can see where, for SOME, something SO simple MIGHT be just a bit too much to ask...

    Examine your heart, D., again... please... and determine who it is that you are REALLY angry at. God requires WAY less than the WTBTS required of you, and yet, for a time, you did what THEY wanted you to do... and quite willingly.

    (Think Israel, after being "freed" from Egypt... crying and murmuring over the TINIEST of things, even preferring to go BACK to Egypt... where they were SEVERELY oppressed and horrendously treated... rather than obey even the simplest direction. Sigh! Certainly you are my brother, for will Israel never cease his 'contending' with God?)

    My love and peace remains... always... and to time indefinite.

    Your servant, FRIEND, sister and a slave of Christ,

    Shel

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    AGuest

    please forgive me if this has already been asked, I did not read all reply's.

    I hear what your saying,you don't have to convince me or anyone else for that matter. The only thing I want to ask you is all those years you spent passing the plate, why on earth did you NOT partake if you felt so strongly about it. It is your right to do just that. No one can tell you not to and they certainly cannot dicipline you for it.
    You should have done what was in your heart.

    I do have one other question if you don't mind.
    "... and I shall RESURRECT HIM...
    at the last day. For MY flesh is TRUE food
    and MY blood is TRUE drink. He that feeds
    on MY flesh and drinks MY blood...
    REMAINS IN UNION WITH ME... and I...
    IN UNION WITH HIM.

    at the last day of what? I'd like to know what your take is on that verse.
    Do you take this to mean 'each' individual's last day?
    Even thought it refers to, or suggests 'A' as in a particular ONE last day?

    plm

    "The fellow that agrees with everything you say is either a fool or he is getting ready to skin you."
    - Kin Hubbard
  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest "Plum"... may you have peace!

    To answer your first question, there are two (2) parts:

    1. I didn't want to be 'disobedient' and the 'brothers' kept telling me that I wasn't who I was or supposed to do what I knew I was supposed to do. They suggested I write Bethel; I wrote Bethel. Each year we had a 'discussion'. It was not a secret what I professed; I just didn't want to 'go against' the 'Society'. After awhile, though, that didn't matter. What did was:

    2. I wanted to be sure my family (mainly my children) could handle the 'fallout'. I KNEW they would be approached and possibly even persecuted. But by the time I did partake, they were quite ready and quite able to handle the comments. They did perfectly and now eat and drink, too.

    With regard to those being 'resurrected', this refers to the 'first' resurrection, that of those 'who belong to the Christ during his presence,' which HE resurrects, which takes place BEFORE their 1,000-year reign with Christ starts (note: it is only THEIR reign with him that is 1,000 years; HIS reign is 'an indefinitely lasting rule", which lasts 'forever and ever').

    Thus, the 'first' resurrection is when "we the living" who have not [fallen asleep] at the time my Lord returns, will be 'changed' at the same time as those who preceded us 'in death' are resurrected.

    Revelation 20:4-6
    Matthew 24:31
    1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
    Matthew 25:31
    Revelation 17:14
    Revelation 19:7

    The rest are not resurrected until after the end of the 1,000 years, after the destruction of Satan and Gog and Magog...

    Revelation 20:6-10

    ... when my Father sits down on HIS throne and opens the scrolls or books to judge those that 'the sea gave up' and death and Hades gives up.

    Revelation 20:11-15
    Daniel 7:9-10, 13, 14

    The 'order' of resurrection, Christ first, then those the 'belong to him during his presence' and finally those resurrected at the 'end' when Christ hands the kingdom over to the Father for judging, is recorded for us at:

    1 Corinthians 15:20-24

    Neither has occurred yet, for as the Apostle John (who takes part in the first resurrection) wrote, "Come, Lord JAHESHUA." Indeed, the Spirit AND the Bride KEEP saying "Come!"

    Revelation 22:17

    I hope this answers your questions, Plum.

    Peace to you!

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • Valentine
    Valentine

    ((((((((shelby sis)))))))))
    This is off topic.But I wanted to thank you for your heartfelt generosity! I recieved your mail. The crib has been delivered and the baby will have a soft and gentle bed.Thank you for your contribution.luv to ya sis,T

    Todays Affirmation:
    The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign that the conspiracy is working.

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    AGuest

    Yes that answered my q's.
    Can I ask what your views are in regard to the number 144,000?
    What then does this number mean for you?
    plm

    "The fellow that agrees with everything you say is either a fool or he is getting ready to skin you."
    - Kin Hubbard
  • AGuest
    AGuest

    My dear sister, Tina... MUCH love and peace to you! HAPPY BABY, Mommy!!

    Dearest Plum... may you, too, have peace!

    My 'views' with regard to the 144,000 are just as they are stated in the Revelation:

    The 144,000 are "from among the sons of ISRAEL": 12,000 from EACH tribe (excluding Dan and double for Joseph)... FLESHLY Israel, the descendants of Abraham, in fulfillment of my Father's promise TO Abraham. The promise ORIGINALLY included the entire nation of Israel: Jews (from the 2-tribe kingdom of Judah and Benjamin) and Samaritans (from the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel). BOTH kingdoms make up "Israel".

    However, since that nation majorily rejected their king, my Lord, the Son of God, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, and either killed him or consented to killing him, they were majorily rejected from being "a nation of kings and priests", "a people for a special possession".

    What resulted was that Abraham's 'seed', the Israelites, were given 144,000 slots, and the REMAINDER of the "nation of kings and priests", is made up of a "great crowed, out of EVERY nation, tribe, tongue and people, which NO man was able to number." This is PROVEN by:

    1. Paul's "revelation" of the "sacred secret" that "people of the nations" would be taken in, thus he was an apostle TO THE NATIONS, unlike the 12, who were apostles to the Jews and Samaritans ("You will be witnesses of me in all Judea and Samaria.")...

    Romans 11:7-32

    That is why the Jews were called FIRST, THEN the Samaritans (and it was the apostles who were initially sent to these two groups, Cornelius being the first Samaritan), THEN the nations (to whom Paul and Barnabas were initially sent).

    (Please note that in TRUTH, the Samaritan woman at the well and the Phoenecian woman (thus of the 'nations') were 'called' by my Lord himself, both even BEFORE the major calling of the Jews.)

    2. Revelation 5:9, 10, which states that this nation would be of kings and priests would be "bought from the earth" and taken out of EVERY nation, tribe, tongue and people...

    3. Revelation 7:4, 9, 15 shows the 144,000 FIRST... and then the "great crowd standing BEFORE the throne". And where, may I ask, IS the throne? Revelation 7 tells us, because such ones are "rendering SACRED SERVICE... IN THE TEMPLE...". It is ONLY priests who can 'render sacred service... in the temple', yes?

    Thus, the 144,000 are the 'little flock' of Israelites, Jews and Samaritans alike. The great crowd are the 'other sheep'. However, TOGETHER, these make up ONE FLOCK... for there is only ONE hope, ONE faith, ONE baptism and ONE Lord.

    My 'view' then, is supported by what is 'written' and does not deviate from it. I say that to say that I am aware that not ALL that is 'written'... is truth... for what is 'written' has, in some cases, been tampered with and changed... by the 'false stylists' of the copyists.

    Jeremiah 8:8

    Again, I bid you peace!

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    Wow the great POOPA MA JUBADWA! Self-annointed water girl for the great football team in the sky!

    Lord! Lord! save us from ourselves

    de caveman

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Greetings Shelby,

    : Tell me, is it such a LARGE thing that is asked of us, truly?

    It's not that it is a large thing, Shelby. It's that it is a really, really, really STUPID thing to ask: "eat bread and drink wine or you are eternally toast. It doesn't matter how many other wonderful and good things you've done in your life: no bread, no wine = YOU ARE TOAST."

    : Let me ask you and you tell me:

    : Which is easier: to GIVE our own flesh and blood?

    We already all do that. We all die, because two nitwits ate a piece of fruit. They shoulda ate the bread and drank the wine, I guess.

    : Or to eat the flesh and blood of the One that gave his? Which would YOU prefer to have to do?

    Not being a cannibal, I definitely don't like the latter. God's solution to everything is to kill people. That includes his own firstborn son.

    I'll pass on the wine and bread. I'm a little nauseous over the notion of the whole thing right now.

    Farkel

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    Greetings SJ,
    Just got in again and checked your thread. I appreciate the time your taking to reply to my questions and I don't mean to keep tossing more at you but with every reply sparks another question in my mind.
    So may I ask another.

    If I am understanding you correctly you are telling me that you believe the 144,000
    to be literal rather then symbolic. I can follow that, no problemo,but, you threw me at
    this point:

    [[[[ 2. Revelation 5:9, 10, which states that this nation would be of kings and priests would be "bought from the earth" and taken out of EVERY nation, tribe, tongue and people...]]]]

    Now would not this be referring to "The Little Flock"?
    Who would be "Kings and Priests" over the Great Crowd?
    That doesn't seem to correlate with being a literal Israel but seems to fit with the theory that this would be referring to a symbolic Israel since the Little Flock according to the verse says they will be taken from every nation and tribe and peoples and toungs.

    And also if the 144,000 is actually literal Israel then wouldn't they ALL be in heaven already? There would be nothing left to fulfill in regard to that prophecy.

    Your thoughts?
    plm

    Farkel,

    I bet you were always the kid playing and hiding in department stores making your poor mamma age to fast.

    [[We already all do that. We all die, because two nitwits ate a piece of fruit. They shoulda ate the bread and drank the wine, I guess.]]

    Two nitwits, FOr sure! I would personally luv kick eves arss if I had such an opportunity.

    I don't think they had bread and wine yet.

    "The fellow that agrees with everything you say is either a fool or he is getting ready to skin you."
    - Kin Hubbard
  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest Plum... again, may you have peace!

    Do not worry yourself over asking 'many' questions; I am your servant. You have now asked:

    "Revelation 5:9, 10, which states that this nation would be of kings and priests would be "bought from the earth" and taken out of EVERY nation, tribe, tongue and people...

    Now would not this be referring to 'The Little Flock'"?

    No, for the "little flock", Israel, is NOT "taken out of every nation, tribe and tongue and people," but SOLELY OUT OF ISRAEL. That is why the 144,000 are SAID to be "from among THE SONS OF ISRAEL", and the tribes listed.

    "Who would be "Kings and Priests" over the Great Crowd?"
    The is only ONE King (thus, ONE Lord) over the great crowd, just as there is only ONE King over Israel: my Lord, the Son of God, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. Along WITH the 144,000 'taken from among the sons of Israel', the great crowd are ALSO 'kings and priests'... taken from "EVERY nation, tribe and tongue and people", to replace those of Israel who LOST such privilege. This is so "the FULL number" is done. Israel first (144,000), then the nations... to make up a "people for a special possession"... ONE flock.

    "That doesn't seem to correlate with being a literal Israel but seems to fit with the theory that this would be referring to a symbolic Israel since the Little Flock according to the verse says they will be taken from every nation and tribe and peoples and toungs."
    I have no knowledge of the "little flock" being taken from every nation and tribe and peoples and tongue. When my Lord SPOKE to the "little flock", he was speaking to the Jews/Samaritans: Israel.

    "And also if the 144,000 is actually literal Israel then wouldn't they ALL be in heaven already? There would be nothing left to fulfill in regard to that prophecy."
    Actually, for those who "die in union with Christ", they are alread "in heaven", per se. That is, their SPIRITS are "under the altar", but the BODIES of such spirits, spirit bodies... the "white robe", although GIVEN to such ones... have not yet been resurrected ("it is sown (buried) a physical body; it is raised up (resurrected) a SPIRITUAL body).

    Let me clarify something for you, if you will permit me: contrary to the ERRONEOUS WT teaching, the 144,000 do not "go to heaven" and the great crowd stay on earth. BOTH the 144,000 AND the great crowd are given "white robes"... SPIRIT bodies... and granted entry into the kingdom as "a nation of kings and priests". They are... ONE FLOCK. Who then do these rule OVER? Those who do NOT 'belong' to the Christ, the sheep and goats that are SEPARATED by such ones when we sit down with my Lord on his throne (note: there is only ONE throne, the Father's, so that when we 'sit down on thrones' we are actually sitting down on ONE throne, in essence SHARING a rulership).

    The sheep are ALSO given white robes and granted entry as GUESTS to the marriage feast... based on their good deeds done to CHRIST, by means of their good deeds done to his brothers. They are NOT the Bride (the 144,000 and great crowd are), but GUESTS at the wedding feast of my Lord and his bride. These are the ones that correlate to RAHAB, who, although NOT an Israelite, and her household NOT circumcised, one who did NOT eat the manna and drink from the rock-mass (take note, Daddy-O, for I will apply this to your comments), and NOT under the Law Covenant... still PROVED her "faith"... by taking CARE of Israel - hiding the spies so that they were safe. In doing this, she saved both herself AND her entire household.

    Hebrews 11:31
    Matthew 25:31-40
    Joshua 2:12, 13

    The great crowd ARE "Israelites", by means of having such bestowed upon them in the SAME manner as the vast mixed company that left Egypt: they celebrated the Passover, passed through the Red Sea, ate the manna, drank from the rock-mass... AND... entered into the Law Covenant mediated by Moses at Mt. Sinai. Thus, the great crowd represents those who "although NOT Israel, will be CALLED Israel", those of whom my Father, the Holy One of Israel, JAH OF ARMIES, said, "Those NOT my people I will CALL my people." Since His "people" WERE Israel, He was NOW referred to those who were NOT Israel being considered AS Israel. And please note, too, that it was the vast mixed company who FIRST grew "tired" of the manna and eventually incited Israel to protest it!

    1 Corinthians 10:1-5
    Romans 9:25
    Exodus 12:48 49
    Numbers 11:4-6

    The goats, on the other hand, are those who did 'bad' to Christ, by doing 'bad' to his brothers (error and/or ommission) and thus are "cut OFF" from entry into the kingdom. Rather than be given a "white robe"... a SPIRIT body... they are left in the flesh... OUTSIDE the city. They are "Gog"... and are eventually destroyed, along with "Magog", the wicked SPIRITS... who are enticed by Satan to come AGAINST the holy city. Why? Because the Tree of Life exists INSIDE the city and if they can get to it and eat... they will live forever. But my Father will not allow this: He himself destroys them by fire from heaven. And THAT... is "the Great Day of God Almighty", the "war" called "Har-Maggedon", which takes place AFTER the 1,000 have ended.

    Genesis 3:22-24
    Revelation 20:7-10
    Matthew 25:41-46

    This "Har-Mageddon" which culminates in the destruction of Gog (wicked flesh) and Magog (wicked spirits) is the FULFILLMENT of the words, "the heavens (spirit realm) and earth (physical realm) that are NOW... are stored up for fire." And, "there will be a NEW heavens (one WITHOUT wicked spirits and their influence) and a NEW earth (one WITHOUT wicked flesh and THEIR influence)... Look! I am making ALL things new!"

    2 Peter 3:7
    Revelation 21:1

    You see, after the marriage of the Lamb, the city of NEW Jerusalem "comes down out of heaven"... TO THE EARTH. The kings/priests sit with my Lord and "separate" the "sheep" from the "goats". The sheep are granted access to the city to take part in the marriage FEAST (which occurs AFTER the wedding), but the "goats" are left outside... in the "darkness"... where they "weep and gnash their teeth." Satan has been abyssed during all of this, but at the end of it, 1,000 years later, he is "loosed" and convinces those left outside, physical flesh and spirit being alike, that if they can just get to that Tree, they can eat and live forever. And they buy it... and make an attempt. They lose, of course.

    Once THAT is over, then the general or "second" resurrection takes place (the "first" occurred BEFORE the 1,000 years started, BEFORE the marriage of the Lamb and Bride, when my Lord returned to 'gather his belongings from the four winds...'. Such ones are those that sit down on his throne to judge... SEPARATE... the sheep and goats.)

    Revelation 20:4-6
    1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
    Matthew 24:31

    At THAT time, my Lord hands the kingdom BACK over to the Father, who sits down on His throne to judge... the living and the dead. All who were not included in the FIRST resurrection (because they did not 'belong' to the Christ by means of being in the Covenant), are resurrected. Some to life, some to everlasting destruction. It takes place like this:

    My Father sits down and is given scrolls, two (2) sets. One is the Book of Remembrance in which the deeds of all these are written, whether good... or vile. The second is the Lamb's Book, the Book of Life. If one's name is written in the Lamb's Book, then his 'sins' are 'blotted OUT' of the Book of Remembrance. He is 'covered' by the blood of the Lamb. Thus, he has NO sin and thus he is granted life, by means of being given a "white robe", a SPIRIT body in which there is NO corruption (sickness, aging, etc.) or death. By means of this body, then, such one can now 'enter' into the kingdom.

    Now suppose one's name is NOT written in the Lamb's Book. Well, then such one is 'judged' (some are resurrected to LIFE, as we have just seen; some are resurrected to 'judgment'. These, are those.) Because ALL have sinned, such one, like the others, has sins recorded in the Book of Remembrance. Since this one's name is NOT written in the Lamb's Book, this one has no 'covering'. His sins are NOT blotted out, but remain and he is, therefore, subject to judgment. And since the 'wages'... or PRICE... of sin... is death, he is condemned to death... everlasting destruction... which occurs ONLY in the Lake of Fire. The Lake is necessary because ONLY this fire... heavenly fire... can kill the body AND the spirit.

    Revelation 20:11-15
    Matthew 10:28

    And that's how it works. Quite simple, really.

    I hope I have been able to help, as I have been granted to by the spirit of my Father, the Holy One of Israel, JAH OF ARMIES, through His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, by means of holy spirit.

    I am YOUR servant, and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

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