by av8orntexas 21 Replies latest social relationships
You have to stop telling Dubs why the WT is wrong and start asking them to justify why they are still members.
Make sure that they get the message that you are waivering and that, in order to save you from certain destruction from their killer god, they need to demonstrate that the Watchtower really was selected, in 1919, as Jehovah's sole channel to mankind in our day.
Make them do the talking. You shut up except for questioning their answers and logic
Cheers
Chris
I told my mom about her last Friday. She didn't like it,but seemed ok with it. I guess she either marinated on what I told her or told someone about it. Because after last weekend she blew my phone up non-stop all week last week. Texting me scriptures. Calling me. Leaving voicemails,leaving messsages about staying clean, away from the world,guilting me on her relationship with my stepdad who is now deceased and was a very bad husband/father/man. Sorry to say, but he was. Nevertheless, my mother is bent on changing my mind,or whatever to get me to see the 'ways of jehovah.'.
Then on top of it all....she is Catholic. OH THE HORROR ! THE HORROR !!!!
I was about to sk you why, if your mum is Catholic, she could possibly want you to stay a Witness. Duhhhh.....
Truly, it ook several more minutes before I realised that it's your new friend who's Catholic.
I thought at least I'd own up and raise a smile for you!
Good luck to you. Perhaps this is the moment for you to vote with your feet and finally walk away from the Witnesses. Your mum is going to have to choose then between losing you and future grandchildren and gulping hard and maintaining contact, however uneasily.
Frrom what you've written about the falling-away of your JW friends etc I think that that's what you really want to do and ultimately, that is actually what you will do, and I wish you a very happy future.
Why worry? Life is short. Just do it.
You're a grown man - you need to set boundaries with your mum. You should have done this years ago but I understand the persistent thought-control mother type and it's never too late to get your space back. She is indulging in a pattern of behaviour encouraged by the JW's - "witness more and you will save him". That pattern of behaviour is destructive as you're finding it annoying, invasive and not answering all her calls.
Step one, you need to stop this bad pattern of her constantly preaching to you and invading your privacy and set boundaries. You can say you love her very much and appreciate she thinks she is trying to help you but this is unacceptable behaviour and you need some space. You do not want to discuss religion with her as there is nothing she can say that you have not already heard and that she needs to respect you are a grown man now.
Tell her that she is free to call a few times a week, in fact why don't you offer to call her and and instead talk about other topics that are neutral. It is important you try and make these calls positive and maybe plan some things to talk about. If she starts to talk religion and oversteps the mark then remind her you'd both agreed not to talk religion and change the subject or cut the conversation short very quickly. It may seem cruel or disrespectful but it will change her behaviour.
At the moment your mum is thinking I need to call him or he will die at Armaggeddon. Then when she hangs up the phone she is frustrated she hasn't saved you yet. It is a very negative cycle, it's not healthy and a terrible relationship to have with someone. So being firm is going to help you and it will help her too. She will still feel frustrated but you will start to have a positive relationship.
The reason why it is important you let her know where she stands now and change the dynamic of your contact is that if you get married it will become a big problem with your future wife when your mother keeps invading your privacy.
When you start to do all this she will know you mean business and start to respect the new boundaries - albeit with some kicking and screaming along the way. It will then mean she will also respect the boundaries of not talking religion with your future wife when you make it clear your wife also does not want to talk about it.
It means you future wife can build a reasonable relationship with your mother without futile debates on religion that will end in tears.
It sounds like you have found a wonderful woman, if you man-up now life will get easier. Clearly there will be future issues about the wedding and if there are kids but that is for another day. Congratulations, I with you every success.
mmxiv
I want to thank everyone for their comments and advice. WEhile I have faded and consider myself free or the organization. After years of being in, I think I still struggle with a little of the mindset and fear of reprecussions . Why ? I have no idea. I do have a handful of friends in I'd like to keep,though we don't speak much. Other than that, that can be the only reason I can give. I'm guessing my friendship may not mean much to some. I will find out next week. After I meet her parents, I'm going to come out to everyone else.
I can say it feels good to meet someone I can be myself with. When I call her, I don't feel a need to demonstrate how spriritual I am by mentioning the number of hours in service I've been in this week or month. No need to talk about the lessons I've studied and how excited I am for the upcoming convention. No need to name drop of elders,MS or who I know on the RBC,etc. Looking back the CONSTANT need to justify my spiritual worth to the opposite sex in order for them to give you the time of day seems utterly crazy. But man did I jump through alot of those hoops !
MrJones - Yes,you're right. I'm trying to be pretty firm with her now. Early,so later on she won't have the idea that she can do what she wants.
jwfacts - There is alot of thruth to your statement. My cousins ( also witnesses, who have loooong faded and not fallen for the guilt trips ) have been telling me for years, that I let my mom control me through duilt trips and the like. While I've gotten better at her 'crying wolf', after years having 'be obedient' to parents ( in the case of dubs, no matter what so times ) I am a bit afraid to lose her relationship. As for reading the texts and lessons, we don'ty do that anymore. I apologize. Thats something she used to try as recent as 2-3 years ago. But gradually I've been trying to ease the control that I give her. It's hard.
baltar447 - I have given that alot of thought. I have never been to church in my life. We never went anywhere as a kid. My mom decided to jojn the JW;s when I was a senior in high school and I was baptized in 1996. After 10-12 years of that, right now I am wary of most religions and really in no hurry to go join any church. I certainly agree on letting kids decide. I had NO CHOICE and it sucked ass,hahahaha.
billytheexbethelite - Certainly. My mom like alot of over-bearing witness parents is GREAT at imposing her feelings and opinions on you. Something I've worked hard to combat.
shamus100 - Yes. But I have faded. This she knows. But she has never given up on me going back. As you can imagine after years of conditioned JW mindset, despite not going anymore, there are still things that a person still works to shake free of. I can say 5 years ago when we met. While I was starting my fade,my fear of what others thought, and the need for JWW approval was much greater. As back then I was still going and half-in, half-out. Thus I ended it before. Now....I no longer go to meetings at all, and pretty much say I'm out. But I guess there is always the fear of losing a few relationships you may want to keep. At least inm my case..there are but a handful of people. My mom is one.
jwdaughter -Thanks for that info. I really don't want to get married in any kind of church. As I told her surely my mom wouldn't come and I would want my mom there. A beach somewhere is certainly fine with me,hahahaha
jemba - I hope your family comes around and warms up to you all. Especially your kids. It infuriates me to think that so many witnesses allow a group of men to seperate them from parents,brothers,sisters,kids or grandkids. They are literally robbing people of time with their loved ones. All because they may not share the same thoughts or opinions as you do ? Shameful. Thank you for the encouragement.
Fernando and Black sheep - I will try to reason those things wityh my mom. Actually a brother whom IMO is smart...yet can't take off the JW sunglasses is someone I'd like to get through to. Considered hima best friend for a long time. He is someone I'd like to remain friends with,but I can see hiom dropping me like a hot potatoe. I really don't know. He too went through some rough times. And despite all that, he got re-appointed MS and now is probably on the verge of being appointed elder. I can tell he is someone that loves a tiltle. So not sure I can get through to him.
Chariklo - Hahahaha. Sorry. My girlfriend is catholic. But she neither attends church like I don't attend meetings. Yet....alot of that stuff is still important to her she tells me. The traditions. I said that,because it was always my impression that the dubs never tolerated othert religions,but they ESPECIALLY had it out for the catholics. And thus to be dating someone catholic......my goodness. Was it me who just thought that, or do some of you get that feeling too ?
transhuman68 - Isn't that the truth. I'm 35 and just now considering marriage. Time has flown. Alot of wasted in tyhe watchtower,but so much more ahead of me I feel.
MMXIV - Thank you. Tht is something I've been trying hard to work on. But like you said, to me sometimes it seems cruel and mean. But at the same time,I'm just giving her more power and control over me. This is something I've really struggled with. I somehow or for some reason feel bad all the time. Most times when I shouldn't. But in order to get my space and even better keep her at her boundaries once we are married is something I need to work on now.
Av8orntexas:
I was curious about your name. Any involvement in aviation?
Take Care
Av8orntexas:
I was curious about your name. Any involvement in aviation?
Take Care
I was wondering that too...
Yes. I've been with a major US carrier since April 2001.
It was my passion growing up.
Mine too. (Passion, that is.) It took me to the military. They used to run this add in "Flying" magazine: "High School Grads Take to The Sky" I took them up on it. Also flew in privately.
Bobcat,
Wow thats really neat. I remember those 'FLYING' mags. When I was 5 my mom sent me to Alabama to stay with her brother while she went through her first divorce.
Well it was the first time I had been in the cockpit of a plane. It was a BOS-ATL flight on an Eastern 727. I got my wings and some popcorn from the FE who let me sit in his seat. When I was 7 I asked my moms for binoculars. Where we lived in Boston ( I'm a Boston native ) our house was located under one of the departure routes out of Logan for many planes heading south. I'd spend HOURS in the window with those binoculars waatching the various planes. Back in those days in the Northeast out of Logan it was everything, Eastern,Pan Am,American,Delta,People Express,Piedmont, UsAir,Bar Harbor,New York Air. That was just domestic.
Are you still flying now ? Are you still in the service or commercial ? What do you fly in you spare time ?
When I joined my company I knew a brother who flew privately. But never pursued it beyond that, as it would 'take him away' from the meetings. I'm diabetic. Finding a doctor to pass me on that medical would have been tough. I spoke with an FO at work and he said in rare exceptions. But you had to prove beyond a DOUBT that it was under control and you were in top shelf health. At the time of my hire I could see like an eagle. In 2005 I donned my first pair of glasses. Thus the thought of missing meetings killed the thought of even giving it a try. Though I know of a two brothers who are CA's with us. One on the 57 and the other a 777 CA. Never met them personally though.
I work in Ops at my company and thats what I like. I like to see how it works. Did non-aviation related desk job here and didn't care for it. Was surprised at how many of my coworkers didn't know a thing about our fleet or anything. Hahahahaha.
