The group of men back East publishing this junk thinks it is the victims responsbility - so a little girl says "NO", then what? The attacker does not retreat, then what? It is like I was taught, you blame the victim, it is somehow YOUR fault, like a woman who is raped that does not cry out, she is guilty of fornication...that book is creepy, disturbing, and might be written by (alleged) pedophiles or to aid and abet alledged pedos in the KH.
Ultimately it is the child who should stop the abuse according to the GB!
by life is to short 204 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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life is to short
That is exactly what I thought Robert222 about the picture and that is why I started this thread because many on this board have not seen the picture if they do not have kids and even if they do have have kids the picture still might not have caught their attention.
Coffee Black said on this thread said that she knew of a sister who was raped and then DF'ed because the rape victim did not scream.
Unfortunately JT and Fleaman think I am just a bitter apostate that is trying to bring down the WT by naming the thread the way I did.
I said in one of my posts that I wish I had not started this thread because of the way that JT came after me misquoting me and such. She came back and said she wished I had not either, because in her mind she feels that I am just this mentally diseased a apostate.I still sick by the title of the thread even though it ticks JT off to no end. The GB are the ones responsible for what is published. Showing a picture of a child who is five years old child at the most fending off a would be attacker in her bedroom by herself by just holding out her little hand is insane at best and crazy at the least.
One of the reasons I started this thread is I took the book the night before to my SNAP meeting and showed it to my group. I know, I know JT and Fleaman think the words are or were cutting edge of their time but not the people in my SNAP group. Everyone was sickened and revolted by not just the picture but also the way it was worded.
As JW's we are so used to hearing Satan and the demons stuff that it truly does not faze us but to those who are not used to our way of speaking it is shocking. The people in my SNAP group were just shocked at the way they threw out those words. Everyone said they would never let their child see the book much less as JT said read it over and over to their kids. Oh like JT said 'who said the world would be fair.'
I have went back over this thread to see where I made my huge mistake in upsetting JT and Fleamam. I just do not see it. OK they did not agree with me in the least they both have made that very, very clear. They both thought that the book was the best and most well written book that they have ever laid their eye on about the issue of talking about children as JT said it went hand in hand with the school her childern were attending at the time and both JT and Fleaman feel the picture is the best picture they have even seen, the picture makes total sense to JT and Fleaman that a five year old can fend off an attacker. They both voiced their views very clearly but when I and Lady Lee did not agree they I feel attacked the both of us JT even saying Lady Lee was childishly because Lady Lee disagreed with her.
If they want me to back down I never will. Until they can show me how a child can truly fend off a child molester by herself like the picture shows and was OK for print by the GB then I sand by my title of the thread.
Also JT kept throwing out how damaged Lady Lee and I was by the way this thread has gone. When one points the finger at another three finger are pointing back. Maybe JT is not as much of a survivor as she thinks she is? So instead of taking her attacks personally maybe she is right I need to step back and she how truly damaged she is.
LITS
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fleaman uk
I focus on issues that are important and often that means the defence of young children who cannot protect themselves. Believe me No doesn't work very well when you are alone with an abuser.
LL I sigh again, nobody is suggesting the issues are not important, you are deflecting what I have said once again. Basically I refuse to believe that the Wt land is a paedophile paradise, good people such as my parents and many many others would not be part of it, even if there was a whiff of JW policies encouraging abuse.
I dont know how much simpler I can explain myself.
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fleaman uk
both JT and Fleaman feel the picture is the best picture they have even seen, the picture makes total sense to JT and Fleaman that a five year old can fend off an attacker.
Dont be so thick please. Where has anyone said that.
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life is to short
Fleaman for someone who hates my post so horribly and thinks I am just trying to bring down the WT. Why are you keeping this post alive by continually to post on it? You just cannnot leave it alone. If I felt a thread was as horrible and crazy as you do this one, I would just STAY OFF IT! So it comes across that there must be some part of you that gets it. That knows what Lady Lee and myself are saying is true. You just do not want to see it because it hits to close to home. It is easier to say there is no pedophile problems in the Jehovah's Witnesses then to accept that the religion you parents hold so dear could be one of the worst religions out there when it comes to hiding child molesters.
JT was right when she said to step back and look at what everyone wrote. I did that and yes tempers flared but it is a very hot subject especially for those of us who saw first hand the mishandling of sex offenders in the religion.
I wanted to believe so bad just like you do that it was just an isolated problem by just some elder who had mishandled the problem.
Sadly I was sucked into the problem without even truly wanting to be. I would have loved to live my life without this knowledge. But once it was dumped in front of me I could not just step over it and pretend it was not there. I saw the problem with my own eyes. It made me sick, I desperately did not want to believe it. I even offered to fly out a brother who had been at Bethel for years and who when we were at Bethel in the early 90's had talked about the damage of sexual abuse. My husband and I offered to send thousands of dollars to have him come to our congregation to talk some sense into the elders about not letting pedophiles hold the children, about not informing the parents, etc. I begged and pleaded with Bethel for help. I set Bethel and all the GB the court and police records of just one of the pedophiles begging them to not send this man door to door since that the COURTS felt he was was a danger.
NOTHING HAPPENED.
At some point as you said my thick head had to accept the fact that this truly is a religion for pedophiles to come. If you read my posts you will see what I have said there is no need for me to re post it yet again for you to yet again slam me.
You said you did not say as I said you did (both JT and Fleaman feel the picture is the best picture they have even seen, the picture makes total sense to JT and Fleaman that a five year old can fend off an attacker. )
You both clearly attacked my thread and feel I was in the wrong to have even started it and as you said here.
Fleaman (Sorry, but im struggling to see what is wrong with the advice given?)
(Dont tell me what I can and cant see. Im no fan of JWism, I just find the hysteria about child abuse a bit, well, ridiculous. It happens everywhere, terrible fact of life but it does. Now clear off and patronise someone else.)
If you said you were struggling to what is wrong with the advice given? It is showing a little girl holding up her hend to fend off a sexual attack! And you said you are struggling to see what is wrong?
How am I supposed to take your words?
I know you will come back to post yet again you just cannot leave this thrad alone, all your are doing is showing that there is a problem by your posts. I have lived it, I know what I am talking about. When was the last time you offered to spend thousands of dollars to have someone from Bethel come out so you could prove to yourself that the religion did care for the children only to have your efferent thrown in you face. Then at the next meeting to see the pedophiles smiling at you as they are holding the kids in front of you with the elders all looking on?
LITS
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fleaman uk
I know you will come back to post yet again you just cannot leave this thrad alone, all your are doing is showing that there is a problem by your posts
And why shouldnt I? Last I looked you werent the authority here. I have stated my opinion and I stand by it. You will now no doubt do what you accused me of...and get the last word to keep this thread alive. I have no interest in getting the last word or whatever, I will however respond when you continuously twist what I said.
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lisaBObeesa
fleaman said:
Sorry, but im struggling to see what is wrong with the advice given?
I have not read this whole thread but....
...Back in 2003 I got a professional opinion of the advice in the 'Great Teacher' book...She thought some of it was very bad and some of it was good....Overall, she said the pages I asked her to read were " Totally inappropriate" for children .
Here is what I reported back then:
"I will tell you a little about her (the therapist): She is a well respected member of the community and runs a moderate size local not-for-profit organization that cares for children in the community who have been abused, have been through trauma or have other needs for support.She and her organization also work with parents, couples and individuals.In her separate, private practice, she also sees numerous children and adults who have been abused, and has been in private practice since 1977.
"I asked her to review the material because while Ithought it was terrible,I very much wanted a professional opinion because I have many biases against the WTBTS.
"After reading the first complete paragraph on page 170, she said, “But God doesn’t always protect His children.”
"After reading the second paragraph she noted how they made a big deal over ‘the opposite sex’ when defining correct adult sex.
"After reading the third paragraph, she said, “This is totally inappropriate as it implies that the little kid is going to turn into a pervert or something.Not good at all.”
"After reading the fourth paragraph, she look disgusted about many things but only said, “Interesting how they keep tying Satan and demons into the whole thing,” (shaking her head.)She said it was very good that it says clearly that the abuse is wrong. (the last sentence on page 170.)
"She said nothing at all about the first paragraph on page 171.
"Regarding the second paragraph on 171, she said, “Many, many 5- or 6-year-olds simply cannot say, ‘stop that!’”Some would be able to do this, but many cannot.Especially if it is their father or someone very close to them that they love.”Then she said, “It is good that it says the child should tell on the abuser no matter what."
"When she was done reading she mentioned again that she was very disturbed by the third paragraph on page 170, and handed the scans back to me.
"I asked her if a child had been abused and then read this if it would make the child feel that the abuse was their own fault and she said, “Exactly!”
"I asked her if all in all she agreed that these pages were inappropriate for children and she said, “Absolutely!Totally inappropriate!”
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Lady Lee
lisa I totally agree with that profeesional. I didn't work with children. I got to see the long term effects in the adults.
You can't tell children to obey and give honor to their elders and especially their parents and then tell them to say NO to something they may not even understand.
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OUTLAW
LL I sigh again, nobody is suggesting the issues are not important, you are deflecting what I have said once again. Basically I refuse to believe that the Wt land is a paedophile paradise, good people such as my parents and many many others would not be part of it, even if there was a whiff of JW policies encouraging abuse.
I dont know how much simpler I can explain myself...FleaMan
Your post couldn`t be any Simpler..
Pretending there is no large group of Child Molesters in the WBT$..
Because..
You know a large group of Decent JW`s is Rediculas..
We all know Decent JW`s..
It doesn`t fix the WBT$ "Hide the Child Molester" policy..
Or protect JW Children..
Your Parents are kept in the Dark by the WBT$..
Just like every other JW..
They won`t listen to anyone except the WBT$..
They`re not going to get a Wiff of Anything unless..
They`ve had Beans for Dinner..
.......................
...OUTLAW -
fleaman uk
Outlaw, seriously...are you 13 years old? it would be ok if you were funny. Which your not.
...OUTLAW