Welcome BU2B. Rush rocks.
Watchtower does not.
For you.... enjoy.
RUSH - BU2B:
Greetings! My first post
by BU2B 56 Replies latest jw experiences
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jgnat
Hi, I'm a non-Witness married to one. I wish I had known more about approaching a cultist before I started sharing my concerns with my husband. It would have saved me years of wasted effort.
What you want to do is take care not to set off alarms. Once she sees you as a minion of the devil it will be so much harder to reach her.
It helps to see two personalities in the body of your wife. One is the hard-core cultist who tries to do everything right. She talks and walks just like the Watchtower tells her to. The other personality is the one she was born with and will include her attitudes, hopes, dreams, and talents. Your job now is to encourage the natural personality without alarming the cultist. With years of practice, I can now pretty well turn a Witness on and off at will. As natural people, they are really very nice!
So I am going to set you off on a new venture of study. Study your wife's natural personality. Through casual discussion and questioning, find out what those natural interests and dreams are. Encourage them at every turn. Learn how to talk to this lovely lady that is your wife. At this stage you don't have to bring up any society stuff. No alarms. All you are doing is subsuming the cultist and letting the natural woman take over. The more she is in evidence, the less influence the WT will have. You can see this progression through the week, especially if you skip the midweek meeting and field service. The longer she has been away from the meetings, the more natural she will be. After the Sunday service, ouch! She will likely spout Witnessisms for a couple hours or so. Provide neutral, non-committal responses to the cultist until it subsides again. Presto, you have your wife back!
You can learn more about these two personalities from www.freedomofmind.com.
Since you are still well within the society, you also have the opportunity to allow your wife's natural thinking to take over during a (society-approved) weekly bible study. The only difference is that you will be addressing her natural personality by asking, "What do you think?"
This strategy, which successfully got an entire family out, is described on www.freeminds.org.
And, finally, how to extract yourself from the duties at the hall. Might I suggest a gradual strategy of planned incompetence? Like....I dunno..."forget" to do it once in a while. Drop the microphone in Sister Ample's lap and spend too much time retrieving it. Leave your tie at home and excuse yourself. Stuff like that.
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Chariklo
Hi BU2B, welcome to the forum!
There are so many here in similar situations to yours and all manner of variations. Me, I was associated with the JW's for about 5 years and intensively studying for 2. I was an unbaptised publisher and was on the very threshold of baptism when events and some bullying behaviour by JW's made me realise what I was actually getting myself into, so i took a mighty step back and have been recovering my sanity on here!
As you've already discovered, it's a very helpful place to be, and you'll make some good friends.
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mouthy
Welcome friend. I am so sorry that your wife is IN!!!! I was like her for over 25 years. I believed it all
My suggestion is go easy...The more you "knock"the Organization ,the stronger she will become..That is how I was anyway. My hubby would beat me to give it up, but the "brothers"encouraged me to take it as the persecution Jehovah promised.It was only after he died they gave me the left foot of fellowship because I
NEVER believed Jesus came invisably in 1914...My daughter mustnt speak to me & maybe your family will
turn on you if you tell them your doubts....I am the Granny & oldest on board. 85 ,my advice is dont give up on GOD!!! I believe in Prayer. Jesus Christ to me is MY Saviour ...God be with youBU2B<<<& his wife -
nugget
Welcome to the board. Bookmarked for later.
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Sheep2slaughter
Welcome. My advice to you comes from personal experience and being in a very similar situation(as are many here so you will find great support here).
BE PATIENT. Continue to be an exemplary husband in the love and respect you show your wife. Take the advice others have given about family outings. Continue to be a great a dad. Guard your tongue but pay close attention for opportunities to expand on things she disagrees with in the congregation or organization. Above all BE PATIENT. This is a long journey and we are only just past the starting line.
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Black Sheep
Welcome to the forum BU2B.
You have made a mistake that most of us made. You forgot every warning the WT gave you about how to recognise apostasy. The other members of your cong, and your wife, were listening to those warnings too. You godamn need a degree in psychology to talk to them.
You cannot tell a JW that there is something amiss without setting off their Apostate Alarms. You can ask questions in a way that obligates them to give you an honest answer, but even then, it is a tightrope walk, and you have to pick your questions very well.
Never try to tell a JW anything. There is a huge amount of information on the internet that you can show them. Don't tell them any of it and certainly don't show them any of it. They are trained not to listen. They are taught that you are trying to take them away from Jehovah and that you are influenced by Satan. So, what can you do???
Ask questions.
They are trained to teach, so ask questions. Ask in such a way that they feel obligated to answer. They are taught that they have knowledge that is neccessary to survive Armageddon, which is coming soon, and that it is their duty to share it. Use that to your advantage.
They are there to save you. You have a question. It is your question that is important because if they can't answer it with honesty and integrity, then they will never accomplish their God given mission.
Remember: You are not there to answer their questions. (They are not interested in your answers except to get you to make a mistake so that they can pounce on it.)
If you do have to show them something, try to make it something that they have in their own home. Even a dictionary or encyclopedia on their own bookshelf might be regarded with suspicion if they think you are an opposer so try to stick to WT literature that they have in their possession or computer and get them to read it to you and comment on it.
The primary doctrine is that the WT was selected by Jesus, in 1919, to be God's sole channel of communication to mankind in our day. As long as they believe that, the WT has full mind control. This is true even if they are studying, unbaptised, drifted or disfellowshipped. Everything the WT teaches is believed because of that doctrine. If the WT changed a doctrine tomorrow, they would believe the change, even if it is contradicted by the Bible or Jesus or Jehovah himself.
Your questions should target anything that supposedly supports that doctrine. Don't waste your opportunities on trinity, immortal soul etc.
Use questions to steer them where you want them to go and to make your points.
If they make a claim about the WT that you know is untrue demand that they prove it, or get them to read, to you, a WT article that contradicts them. NOTE: Do not read it to them!!!!!
Don't get sidetracked.
Red herrings are their favorite trick. They are trained to distract you from your subject and are experts at it.
Rule #1: Don't change the subject.
Rule #2: Don't let them change the subject.
Every time you read a disaster story about a conversation with a JW, the JW has had control of the subjects.
The tricks they use are mostly diversion tactics. They will:
Talk volumes about a related subject without discussing your question.
Ask a question about another subject.
Attack another church or their doctrine.
Attack your character.
Attack your motives.
JWs never stay with a subject that they are uncomfortable with, so, if one tries to change the subject, that is a very good indication that you should stay on that subject. Try to make them feel guilty for attempting to use these tactics on you. Use parallels to religions that they consider to be false if you can. If they have previously denegrated a religion for using the tactic they are using on you, point it out and pour on the guilt for it. Act offended that they should do such a thing to you. Guilt, guilt, guilt.
If a conversation reaches a stalemate, or one of you needs to go away to do some research, finish the conversation and walk away. Do not start another subject. Do not let them start another subject. They will always want to start another subject because they want to end the conversation feeling as though they have had a 'win' and they can do that if they can pick a subject that they are good at and you are not. It is time to stop. Now. You can talk about sport or politics or the weather, but do not discuss another religious subject.
Control, control, control. -
Chariklo
The primary doctrine is that the WT was selected by Jesus, in 1919, to be God's sole channel of communication to mankind in our day. As long as they believe that, the WT has full mind control. This is true even if they are studying, unbaptised, drifted or disfellowshipped. Everything the WT teaches is believed because of that doctrine. If the WT changed a doctrine tomorrow, they would believe the change, even if it is contradicted by the Bible or Jesus or Jehovah himself.
Sorry to butt in on this thread but it's relevant, really. I think at root one of the things deterring me from baptism at the last minute was this 1919 question. I'd been out preaching and publishing away for many months, but basically I never really believed the 1919 thing. (other things too but that...no way.)
What's the best way to approach it with a hardened JW? They're tending to "just drop by" a fair bit, different ones, though they've been given no encouragement.
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Indian Larry
Hi BU2B,
Welcome to the forum. I too am struggleing with a wife that just can not see that the faithful and discrete slave lies. I also have to agree with Black Sheep. Do not try to "tell" her anything, believe me it just does not work. Ask questions, help her to think. For yourself I highly reccomend In Search of Christian Freedom by Ray Franz. If you look on P2P sites it is available as a .mp3 so you can listen to it in the car when you are alone.
There is also a guy named Wilbur Lingle. Just Google his name and see if you can get any of his stuff. He has some pretty good ideas on helping your family.
Good luck
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Farkel
In addition to the Rush lyrics that have been posted, I offer these lyrics from a song in the classic musical "South Pacific". It is entitled, "You've Got to be Carefully Taught."
You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.
You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.
You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!
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That sums up the Watchtower Leaders quite nicely, I think.
Farkel