Latest convention brochure on,,, the Governing Body

by cedars 106 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Vanderhoven7

  marked
• 

  wannabefree

  Here is another quote for you cedars ....

  *** w10 9/15 p. 23 par. 8 "Your Leader Is One, the Christ" ***The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the modern-day Governing Body, they are in fact following their Leader, Christ.

  so, the anointed and other sheep follow the lead of the Governing Body, yet the Governing Body aren't leaders, no, by following the Governing Body, who is leading, the anointed and other sheep are actually following Christ ... cuz I suppose he is leading the Governing Body ... NUTS!
• 

  InterestedOne

  Here is an email exchange between me and my JW study conductor about "leaders" vs. "those taking the lead":

  IO: It appears to me that if you see something wrong with what your leaders . . .
  
  SC: We have already gone over that. They are not our “leaders,” so calling them that is confusing. Jesus is the head of the congregation.
  
  IO: From WT Sept 15, 2010, page 23 par 8: "The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the modern-day Governing Body, they are in fact following their Leader, Christ." If you follow the lead of the Governing Body, how can you say they are not your leaders?
  
  SC: Same way the Israelites did not consider Moses their leader because their leader was Jehovah. They understood that Jehovah was using Moses to “lead” or direct them and they did have to follow his direction or lead. But ultimately their leader was Jehovah. We believe the faithful and discreet slave is following Jehovah’s direction and because the scriptures tell us they would be providing the food at the proper time, (which they are) we follow their lead or direction. But ultimately Jesus is the head of the congregation and his head is Jehovah God. So they are the real leaders. IO I think we went over this point in your bible study.
  
  IO: When I said "your leaders," I was including their claim and your belief that they are following Jehovah's direction. Should I not refer to the men of the Governing Body, the DO's, the CO's, and your local elders as your leaders? I figured it would not be a problem to refer to them as your leaders because the practical effect is that they lead you. I was not leaving Jehovah out of the picture, because as you said, you have explained in the study that you believe Jehovah is leading the men of the Governing Body. If I understand JW doctrine correctly, Jehovah does not lead you directly because you are a Jonadab or "other sheep." He leads the anointed ruling class who call themselves the "faithful and discreet slave" who in turn lead you. Am I misunderstanding the arrangement of the JW organization?
  
  SC: We don’t use the expression “they are our leaders.” It can give the wrong impression. So what we do say is “they take the lead” or “they are responsible for.” This is not a Jehovah’s Witness doctrine. It is a scriptural doctrine. But I think you get the gist of it.
  
  IO: Ok. So I won't say "your leaders." The problem with the expression "take the lead" is that it contains no object. It does not say who is being led. Although more awkward than "your leaders," I guess I could say "those who take the lead of you." Can I phrase it that way? To just say "take the lead," doesn't express who is being led.
  
  SC: They take the lead in the congregation. They are responsible for the circuit. They are responsible for the district. “Those who take the lead of you.”, does sound a little awkward. Don’t use this one either. See this example: Heb. 13:7, 17, 24. IO it will take time to get the phrasing correctly, but you will hear these expressions and others at the meetings.
  
  IO: Check those verses in other translations. "Remember those who led you." - NASV, "Remember your leaders." - NIV, "Remember them which have the rule over you." - KJV
  
  SC: I read them. I said: “We don’t use the expression 'they are our leaders.' It can give the wrong impression.” We still stand by this. Nothing has changed since the last e-mail. We should have respect and follow our guides/captains. To call them “leaders” isn’t exact. Jesus is our leader. But we do recognize the admonition to follow their lead.
  
  IO: What wrong impression could a person possibly get from the expression "they are our leaders?"
  
  SC: That we follow men. Or that we are ruled by men.
  
  IO: How is the expression, "they take the lead among us" any less susceptible to giving that impression?
  
  SC: It doesn’t sound like you see any difference. But that’s ok. We feel like there is a difference, a nuance if you will. And therefore that is why we phrase it the way we do.
  
  IO: I do feel a nuance between the two expressions. Nevertheless, I don't see how one is more or less susceptible to giving the wrong impression. The nuance I detect is that the expression "your leaders" is more direct than "those taking the lead among you." In English class I was taught to avoid indirect language. If you prefer, I will refrain from using the expression "your leaders," and substitute "those taking the lead among you."
  
  SC: It might sound like indirect language. But it is more accurate. “Our leaders” gives the impression that they are on a separate level or even a higher level. When you say “Those taking the lead among you” they don’t sound separate because they are “among us”. Even those of the faithful discreet slave who have a heavenly hope, and the governing body members are still referred to as “our brothers.” Not leader, master, ruler, etc. Amongst Jehovah’s Witnesses, it would sound a little strange if you referred to them in that way.
  
  IO: I see the idea about "among us." Interesting point about "our brothers." Yet, the Governing Body are Christ's brothers and you are not. To me that looks like they are in a different class of brothers. They are a ruling class that rule with Christ. When I think of it that way, if "your leaders" gives the impression that they are on a separate level, it may actually be an accurate impression because they are of a kingly ruling class. Am I wrong?
  
  SC: The ones on earth aren’t ruling. Jesus said his sheep would know his voice and follow him. Those of the “little flock” (heavenly hope-to rule with Christ). And the “other sheep” (earthly hope) who are not of that fold. "... and they will become one flock, one Shepherd.” –John 10:16. Even though they are of two separate classes notice that they are all considered sheep under one Shepherd or leader Jesus. Some of those sheep have certain duties or responsibilities. Some of the sheep even “Shepherd” the flock by following Jesus’ example. But they are all still sheep. And they all follow their Shepherd Jesus.
  
  IO: I see.
• 

  Finkelstein

  where ordinary, everyday words don't mean what they ordinarily mean anywhere else all of the time.

  The WTS. creates their own language and many diverse interpretive understandings when it trys to structure an specific directive,

  notably god has chosen us .

  They do talk in many corners of their mouths, intensionally inspired to support the affirmation that god has chosen them as his holy anointed

  earthly class.
• 

  Bella15

  Who was the Governing Body before the JW's came about? By there logic there should always have been one.

  The JWs before were indoctrinated to respond that there were none - and the period of their none existance is called the Dark Ages (Oscurantismo in Spanish). No kidding! This is what I remember JWs say in Latin America. They may say something else today.
• 

  jamesmahon

  I picked up on "Universal Sovereign". Bit of JW speak that I had forgotten. Made me smile for some reason in a "you frigging idiots" sort of way
• 

  VM44

  SC: "Our leaders” gives the impression that they are on a separate level or even a higher level. When you say “Those taking the lead among you” they don’t sound separate because they are “among us”. Even those of the faithful discreet slave who have a heavenly hope, and the governing body members are still referred to as “our brothers.” Not leader, master, ruler, etc. Amongst Jehovah’s Witnesses, it would sound a little strange if you referred to them in that way"

  OK, how would SC explain this Organizational Chart published in the Watchtower?

  Looks to me like there are many "separate levels" with some "higher" than others.

  

  SC: "See this example: Heb. 13:7, 17, 24."

  Hebrews 13:7, 17, 24
  New International Version (NIV)

  7 Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.

  17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

  24 Greet all your leaders and all the Lord’s people. Those from Italy send you their greetings.

  I read "leaders", "leaders", and "leaders."

  What is the SC trying to pull off here?
• 

  cedars

  VM44 - I love how the above diagram implies that there is/was a direct line of communication between the Governing Body and elders/servants. This couldn't be further from the truth!!

  Cedars
• 

  InterestedOne

  VM44 - The SC insisted that the NWT wording was more accurate which says "Remember those who are taking the lead among you." I didn't take the time to do a word study on it.
• 

  Finkelstein

  If that diagram were true then all and every member of the Gb had to be of the FDSL or anointed.

  As far as I know the GB has never been made up entirely of the anointed.