by gravedancer 27 Replies latest jw friends
Perry - my other thread was totally different to this one...
This one deals with atheists, the other dealt with religious people.
You think there is a difference? Some comments on the board prompted me to post this thread - not yours. It is apparent that the word "cult" needs a common definition. All kinds of semantics are being played with it as you can see from stuff like Proplog and Amazing and others are posting.
You want to add stuff with substance kewl...I know you can.
Yeah, we're a cult, and this week I'M in charge!
NN
People in charge need neat sounding titles. How should we address you for the rest of the week? ;)
SS
chezza asks:
isnt an atheist someone who doesnt believe? how that be controlling?I dealt with this question in a thread I started here:
and again in gravedancers' thread here that he abandoned when it got too uncomfortable for him:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=22539&site=3
Why gravedancer keeps running around the board starting new threads without facing challenges to his previous rhetoric, is truly causing me to question his motives.
The fact of the matter is that the athiest must believe in the supernatural on the question of origins.
However, even if some people concede that the position is merely lack of belief, the ideological structures built on athiesm can indeed be controlling and threaten your very freedom.
By advocating the maddeningly false reasoning that says: "because athiesm is innocous, its subsequent ideologies, social policies, and political implications are beyond the need for scrutiny and accountability", the aethistic evangelist hopes to disarm any resistence to his/her agenda.
It's just marketing....nothing more. It is amazing that this kind of childish reasoning is even attempted here, since many of us are very leary of and attuned to this kind of manipulation since having survived the WBTS.
Don't fall for the aethistic evangelist's false reasoniong. It is merely an attempt to avoid discussion of its usefulness and viability in people's live.
While I concede that athiesm is just as logically valid a position as theism, I have always wondered why it's promoters usually avoid provocative discussion of its effects on society and the individual.
It begs the question: What are they afraid of?
Perry,
Your thread centered on the notion that "there is no escape from religion.
I dealt with this question in a thread I started here:Oh Perry, who answered your thread first? I did. I grant that the response was short but here it is:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=22556&site=3...While I concede that athiesm is just as logically valid a position as theism, I have always wondered why it's promoters usually avoid provocative discussion of its effects on society and the individual
There is a consequential difference between theists and atheists.Did you respond to that? No. But then you come and spout stuff like I just quoted above. The gist of my reply is simple and alludes directly to why atheism's "promoters usually avoid provocative discussion of its effects on society and the individual."
You also state something that clearly shows you do not know me at all:
It is so obvious, gravedancer, that your anger (justified) at the WBTS has seriously left you wide open to having marketers of other ideologies do a brain scrambling number on you once again.
Perry, if you knew me at all you would know that I am one of the people who are NOT angry at the WTBS. I take full responsibility for the direction of my life. In fact that ties in very closely to the fact that I am an atheist now. I have no "god" to live for and not "priest" to perform blowjobs on. I am a follower of Gravedancer and a worshipper of gravedancer....I am an utterly selfish person and proud of that fact (go ahead and twist this now - it will be fun to watch).
Perry, do you accept the definition of the word cult as postulated by West & Langone. I hope so because I look forward to discussing the effects of religion on peoples lives vs the effects of atheism on people's lives. I propose that as soon as we have clearly defined what a cult is that we get into that discussion.
Perhaps we can find an "ideal" which is acceptable to both of us coming out of the discussion?
:By advocating the maddeningly false reasoning that says: "because athiesm is innocous, its subsequent ideologies, social policies, and political implications are beyond the need for scrutiny and accountability", the aethistic evangelist hopes to disarm any resistence to his/her agenda.
Perry,
Between the quotes above, who specifically are you quoting? Who, exactly, said that? Certainly it is maddeningly false reasoning, but to whom can we attribute it?
Eric
Hi SS!!
Golly gee - a TITLE! I have to admit I've been so concerned with doing [nothing]'s bidding that I failed to capitalize on all the self-aggrandizment that was mine for the taking! Drat! I HATE it when that happens!
How aboout "Your Voidness? Or is that too Tao?
-
gravedancer,
Perhpas we all need to agree on a common definition of the word CULT. I propose we use this one:
Yes, yes! young master gravedancer, you learn quickly... agreement on definitions leads to meaningful discourse.
It is apparent that the word "cult" needs a common definition. All kinds of semantics are being played with itOh yes! We must not fall prey to the illicit use of language... Yoda, could gravedancer be... [Yoda] "Yes... logic in this one... very strong sense I..."
But wait...
gravedancer says:
Perry,So atheism's promoters usually avoid provocative discussion of its effects on society and the individual because there is a consequential difference between theists and atheists.
Your thread centered on the notion that "there is no escape from religion.quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------
I dealt with this question in a thread I started here:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=22556&site=3
...While I concede that athiesm is just as logically valid
a position as theism, I have always wondered why it's
promoters usually avoid provocative discussion of its
effects on society and the individual
----------------------------------------------------------------Oh Perry, who answered your thread first? I did. I grant that the response was short but here it is:
quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------
There is a consequential difference between theists and atheists.
----------------------------------------------------------------Did you respond to that? No. But then you come and spout stuff like I just quoted above. The gist of my reply is simple and alludes directly to why atheism's "promoters usually avoid provocative discussion of its effects on society and the individual."
In other words, there is a difference between atheism's promoters and theism's promoters because... well... because there is a consequential difference between theists and atheists...
[silence...]
But why Yoda?... [Yoda, shaking his head in disappointment] "He is not the one..."
Sorry gravedancer, you were off to such a good start. I'll give you an 'A' for effort though.
By the way, will you ever respond to my posts at:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=22539&site=3
or should I just remove my bookmark to that thread?
Oops... I almost forgot... my opinion is that atheism is not a cult (by your excellent definition of the term cult).
Five Gospels
wb 5 Gospels - good to c U
One thing about me - I am inherently lazy. I can afford to be - after all I am a very selfish atheist. So sometimes I am slow in responding.
When someone feels as though they are living "under the power" or "living for the will" of God they almost become less accountable. It's easy to turn around and say "it's God's will".
When you become a selfish person like me (in large part because I am now an atheist) you realize you get one shot at life, make the most of it and live like there is no tomorrow (plan for tomorrow but don't live for tomorrow at all). I have overcome my prior issues such as procrastination and lethargy. I wake up every day now and I want to have fun and I want to achieve 110% for that day. I have no hope for the future - so I have to get my kicks out of today.
That's just a small taste...if you are interested I will respond further...but right now I feel selfish and think I will go and see what food I can steal...
GD,
If true, your question boils down to this:
1) Believing is a cult
2) Not believing is a cult
Since everyone falls into one or the other category by that definition, everyone is a cult.
Ergo, the word "Cult" is meaningless.
Farkel
