YOU have the power to eradicate evil in the world. How would you accomplish this? (page 6)

jam

leavingwt: The human race continue to make the same mistake

over and over again. To answer your question, "would we make A

different choice if you could turn back time". I don,t think so

especially if you thought you might benefit in some way.

jgnat

BTS: All evil is, is a relative absence of good. It is what happens when we choose a lesser good over a greater one.

I respectfully disagree. I'll give several examples.

Plato makes a good argument that happiness is not the same as absence of pain. One can be pain free and still be trapped in a grey existence. So happiness is not the opposite of pain but something else altogether.

Tim Allen in his (second?) book argues convincingly that hate is not the opposite of love; apathy is. Hate in actuality is just a shade this side of love, because it is still on the side of caring.

And finally about a lesser good, let's say I pick a fruit roll-up over an apple. It is less good but it is not evil.

jgnat

Aaron, I can see immortality generating a whole new set of problems. I could see people becoming more self-absorbed (no-one left to impress), less happy (failing to live in the moment) and negative population growth (no more babies).

botchtowersociety

BTS: Is there any evidence to support the idea that you or I would make a different choice about anything if we were taken back in time 24 hours and had to replay that 24 hours, if we were unaware of the rewind? If not, are we not already robots? (Sam Harris put forth something along these lines.)

Even if true, I don't see how that negates free will. You could rewind me 24 hours without my knowledge to a situation where someone was holding a gun to my child's head and I had a clear and easy head shot, and I am pretty sure I'd make the same choices.

Harris believes free will is incompatible with the laws of physics. If you want an atheist treatment on the matter of free will that arrives at different conclusions, try the compatibilist Daniel Dennett.

botchtowersociety

JGnat, I think I disagree.

Plato makes a good argument that happiness is not the same as absence of pain. One can be pain free and still be trapped in a grey existence. So happiness is not the opposite of pain but something else altogether.

Here you equate "absence of pain" with happiness. Pain and happiness aren't necessarily opposites. What sort of pain do you describe? Do you mean mere physical pain manifesting as signals coursing through your nervous system to your brain? Some people find physical pain pleasureable. They let others tie them up and do things to them. Some people are happier suffering a physically painful situation because it serves a higher purpose they strongly support and want to advance. They'd be less happy if they spared themselves. A woman wants a child so bad that she is willing to endure the pain to bring it into the world. Would she be happier if she spared herself the pain and had none? You have to define what pain means in order for this to even begin to make sense. A "grey existence," which I take to mean an existence without joy or purpose, is psychologically painful.

Tim Allen in his (second?) book argues convincingly that hate is not the opposite of love; apathy is. Hate in actuality is just a shade this side of love, because it is still on the side of caring.

Is apathy the opposite of love? Some think the opposite of everything emotion is apathy. Some say the opposite of love is fear. But I digress. Love and hate are relative. If you choose one thing over another, in a relative way, you "love" the chosen and "hate" the unchosen--you love the unchosen less.

And finally about a lesser good, let's say I pick a fruit roll-up over an apple. It is less good but it is not evil.

That depends on your value of what is good. If both things are equal in every way, then there is no difference in goodness. If the roll-up gives you more pleasure, then you might say it is more good. It is just personal preference. It also depends upon the circumstances, not just the choice. The object is good: nourishment and pleasure. But the circumstances could vary. For example, if fruit roll-ups are manufactured in a factory by brutal child slave-labor, but the apple grows organically in your back yard, (and you had full knowledge when you made your selection) then it probably is the less-good choice, and therefore evil. If the apple is harvested by slave children in a far away country, but the fruit roll-up was not, the opposite could apply. There are other circumstances. For example, if the fruit roll-up was very very bad for your health because of a particular condition, and you chose it for its pleasure despite the fact that an apple wouldn't harm you in any way, then that might be a less good choice as well. All the basic human drives are good. We couldn't surivive without them. It is their expression that can be morally disordered.

jgnat

BTS, you describe the fundamental problem with defining evil as "less good". You end up tithing your mint and your cummin. I think you are making my argument for me.

You also describe quite well why the absence of pain is not equal to happiness. I would suggest also that trying to attain ever higher levels of goodness is not the same thing as avoiding evil.

botchtowersociety

"Less good" is evil. To place a value on something that it does not have is evil. To value something higher than it should be in relation to something else is evil. Pleasure is good, not evil. But, for example, for me to place my personal pleasure higher than the basic needs of my children--I'd consider that evil. Sexual pleasure is good. But to place sexual pleasure ahead of my marital commitment to my wife is evil. The thing itself (pleasure) is not evil. The problem becomes human judgement. To not try to attain to the highest goodness possible is evil. Again, the issue is judgement. You mentioned psychopaths. How many mentally healthy people consider themselve to be evil, regardless of what they have done? I've never met one.

YOU have the power to eradicate evil in the world. How would you accomplish this?

jam

jgnat

jgnat

botchtowersociety

botchtowersociety

jgnat

botchtowersociety

jgnat

leavingwt

mP

Share this