Thanks everyone!
JWs through the eyes of an eight year old
by maksutov 24 Replies latest jw experiences
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ABibleStudent
maksutov - We then got onto talking about evolution, and I said that unlike these invisible people there is lots of evidence for evolution. She then put on a defensive playground voice, saying "yeah? Prove it! You have to prove that we're wrong and you're right."
Hi maksutov, You did great at explaining cancer, evolution, etc. How about teaching your daughter how to do her own research? If she asks about evolution, show her how to do research using the internet. Help her to evaluate information sources and analyze information. The only caveat is keep it simple and fun, so that she retains the information.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
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rathernotsay
Im in a similar boat, not quite the same (4&2) age but never the less am having the same kind of issue. my wife and her family are all jw. Myself and my family arent religious.
I think you are doing a great job at trying to teach your daughter. Keep it up, it sounds she like she is a bright kid.
its only my 4yo thats asking questions. I have found all I can really do at this point is get him interested in dinosaurs and space, hoping that he asks the right questions later.
its a funny postion to be in that ive found compromise in the marriage is important. I made certian rules for the kids like we dont say grace in our home, she doesnt use the phrase the truth to them, and of course if they dont want to go they dont have to. as my family celebrate xmas by getting drunk and eating excessively she has to come along and enjoy the fun with the kids etc.
I guess its a learning process. I have learnt to try not to seem as if im arguing with the kids about it. And ive learnt to try not to get annoyed when he tells my friends that jeh loves them. It sounds to me like youve got this under control. With your guidance Im sure she will see the real truth
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SonoftheTrinity
Put the "Thou shalt not commit logical fallacies" poster up in somewhere in the house and tell her for every logical fallacy she finds in the Awake magazine you'll pay her a quarter (or a dollar if you got it like that.) That way she will pay attention which will initially please your wife until she finds out what is going on. Then you can tell her that Awake just needs better writers who don't stoop to logical fallacies. Kind of like how I told my wife I want my kids to grow up to be JW lawyers so they can pimp the organization instead of the organization pimping them. I told my eldest you have to think for yourself whenever his mother isn't around. And for the most part he does, which is why he is so quiet at family bible study. I also told him to pay very close attention so that he can see the sophistry and logical fallacies, so that should he choose to not be a Jehovah's Witness he can say exactly why to his mother. -
OrphanCrow
Mak, your parenting skills are incredible. Seriously, there are very few dads that take the time to cultivate an open enough relationship with their daughters that would allow for the type of interchange that you two had. The more time that you spend in honest communication with her, the more the trust level will build.
And, she is one lucky girl that she has a father with the knowledge that you have. I know of very few people who could explain scientific principles as well as you did. In fact, many elementary school teachers, teaching at that grade level, in the schools around here could not do it as well, if at all.
I wasn't introduced to the principles of evolution until I was 35 years old in a third year university class - Comparative Psychology - It just hadn't been part of the curriculum classes in the high school classes that I had chosen when I was younger and, frankly, my interests had been elsewhere.
I want to comment on this:
(even her school teacher is a muslim who won't let the kids use the word 'hell', and changed a recent school topic from 'witches and wizards' to 'imaginary places')
I realize that there is more context than the information you have given about the changes in word choice that the teacher made, and that there may be some influence from the teacher's religious beliefs.
However, I think there is merit in the changes. Firstly, by eliminating and not using the word 'hell', it acknowledges that 'hell' is non-existent. It really doesn't exist so why use the word? You don't even have to explain that imaginary place if it isn't in use. And, the teacher's interpretation and teaching of that word would reflect her religious bias, which would not be a good thing for her to have to explain to a class of mixed religious cultures.
Secondly, 'witches and wizards' again, are imaginary figures - the use of the words would connotate 'existence' - just like god - they don't exist. By applying the term 'imaginary places', the teacher has clearly identified that those magical figures exist there - in the imagination. They are not real.
Mak...Keep up the fabulous work - be proud of yourself and your daughter - she is going to be just fine. A smarty pants just like her daddy.
:)
*to add - I think that another easy concept that she would understand is the principle of 'survival of the fittest'. A child understands that weak plants die and the stronger plants live longer and produce seeds. They see 'survival of the fittest' in their own environment. Eh...maybe you have already built that concept into your explanation.
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Vidiot
You done good, maksutov. -
maksutov
Thanks very much for all the comments and encouragement (ew, did I just use that word?) - I appreciate it!
My daughter tends to get really defensive whenever we talk about this stuff - like she's spoiling for a fight, and wants to convince me to believe. I really struggle to let her have her say - my instinct is just to shut her down and say that I've heard it all before, but I'm making an effort now to acknowledge what her mum has been teaching her as a possibility, but one that has no evidence to back it up.
ABibleStudent: How about teaching your daughter how to do her own research? If she asks about evolution, show her how to do research using the internet. Help her to evaluate information sources and analyze information.
Good reminder, thanks. We usually have these sorts of chat after dinner when her mum is on the computer, so it is the one time that it's difficult to look things up, but you are right, she needs to learn how to evaluate sources and do her own research.
rathernotsay: its only my 4yo thats asking questions. I have found all I can really do at this point is get him interested in dinosaurs and space, hoping that he asks the right questions later.
Yes, it is very hard to have meaningful discussions at that age! I have always tried to foster an interest in science in my daughter, but she's not all that interested. When she was younger I used magic tricks to help her develop critical thinking skills - she learned very quickly that there is always a secret trick involved, and that it's not real magic. She has her own magic sets which she still plays with occasionally. We used to watch magic shows on TV too, and tried to guess how the tricks were done.
sonoftheTrinity: Put the "Thou shalt not commit logical fallacies" poster up in somewhere in the house and tell her for every logical fallacy she finds in the Awake magazine you'll pay her a quarter (or a dollar if you got it like that.) That way she will pay attention which will initially please your wife until she finds out what is going on.
Funny you should say that, as I have been teaching her about logical fallacies too, and I mentioned that poster to her! I told her that if she learned a few fallacies I would print the poster for her. I try to find examples of each fallacy that don't involve God or religion - as I want her to spot JW fallacies for herself (it can be quite hard to come up with examples that are simple enough for her to understand though). So far we've covered false dichotomies, post-hoc fallacies, ad hominem, and arguments from personal incredulity. A few weeks ago I inadvertently used a false dichotomy, and she picked me up on it!
@OrphanCrow: Stop it man, you're making me blush! I think I just get a little annoyed that the teacher lets her own religious beliefs interfere with her teaching. The 'Witches and Wizards' topic was selected by the school for her year group, and was meant to include a bit of Harry Potter among other things, but the teacher got it changed (she spoke to my wife about it, as she knew my wife would not like it either). They did do the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe though, which my wife refuses to read with her. And yes, I need to introduce survival of the fittest, that isn't something we've covered yet.
Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions!
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OrphanCrow
Mak:
@OrphanCrow: Stop it man...Pssst....I am not a man. I pee sitting down. I know what labor pains feel like.
You make me feel like I am still working in the trades as the only woman on the construction site!
Or hanging out in one of my favorite places - a pool hall.
Lol! Give all us gals some credit here. Your daughter is one :)
*to add: it could be beneficial for your daughter to read The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, though. The Christian themes are so strong in that book that it would open up her mind to the possibilities of different interpretations of text - primarily that the text she is taught is infallible is anything but.
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sunny23
You are doing an amazing job mak. I hope to have your level of composure and articulation when I have kids of my own. The first video posted on the first page is great. This one is a good preface to it but might be a little further over her head than the first but im sure you can re-word it easily for her and tell it in a different light..
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maksutov
OrphanCrow: Pssst....I am not a man.
Sorry man! But yeah, I guess I did assume you were male for some reason. My bad. I'm blushing even more now!
OrphanCrow: The Christian themes are so strong in that book that it would open up her mind to the possibilities of different interpretations of text
Yes, when I found out she would be covering it at school, I read it through myself, and was pretty shocked at what a rip off of the gospels it was. I did point that out to my daughter. It's a good yarn though - we're still reading it together now actually.
sunny23: This one is a good preface to it but might be a little further over her head than the first but im sure you can re-word it easily for her and tell it in a different light
Thanks, yes, another good video, although the vocabulary would be way beyond her at this stage.