1 How long does the Society keep records of publishers diciplinery actions at cong level and at the branch ?
2 How would you respond to the Society's claim that they are not responsible for the criminal actions of the rank and file?
I have a question for any ex or current elder or co.
by blindnomore 19 Replies latest watchtower bible
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sir82
I think they keep the records indefinitely, though I'm not really sure.
Why would the Society be responsible if one of Jehovah's Witnesses decides to rob a gas station?
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Wilfried
Minimum 5 years ... 20 years is not rare ....
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matt2414
On question two, churches and church leaders in the U.S. have ministerial privilege, which allows them to hear confessions even about most criminal activity and not have to report it to authorities. Catholic priests who hear confessions have this legal privilege as well. I remember a circuit overseer saying that elders don't even have to report murder, although it would be handled in the congregation by judicial committee.
On the other hand, the law now requires certain information such as reports of child abuse and molestations to be turned over to the police. To evade this and avoid having any responsibility in the matter, the governing body requires that all information regarding a judicial committee matter involving this be held in confidence and be placed in a secure location, away from the rest of the elders and congregation. This way they can deny they knew of the alleged crime. Calling the Society about such matters would violate the ministerial privilege, so the GB tells elders not to mention to the police that they had any contact with headquarters.
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blindnomore
Ok, I need to be more specific on question 2.
2. What is the Society's responsibility or liability with regard to sexual misconduct of its members? For example if a young person is delt with judicially for sexual reasons is there a responsibliity when this person is again involved in sexual misconduct perhaps after he reaches 18 years of age and is guilty raping a minor? This person is neither a Pioneer, MS or Elder. But rank and file.
On question one I was told the Society keeps records for up to 7 years locally and destroys. And that branch records are destroyed. Is this true?
Thanks for your answers
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flipper
BLINDNOMORE- As you know I was never a C.O. or an elder, just a MS for a long time- however- I've read enough and informed myself enough to know from just reading the WT society's elders manuals and communications to elders that indeed, elders are first told to call Bethel legal if child abuse is reported and then Bethel legal informs them if they are in a " reporting " state or live in a " non-reporting state " as to whether it's legally mandatory to report the crime to police officials.
Whether or not the offending JW was a elder, MS., or pioneer doesn't matter- if the elders were negligent and didn't report a child molester to police in a " reporting " state- yes, they can and should be held liable. The Candace Conti case here in California is definite proof of that fact - that the elders were negligent in NOT reporting Contis molesters prievious child abuse of his stepdaughter to police ! So yes, WT society was held liable for Contis 28 million $$$$ civil lawsuit. To show WT society is negligent , they even settled out of court with 16 child abuse victims back in 2007 here in California and had gag orders imposed in the out of court settlements so child abuse victims wouldn't talk to the media. If that's not an admission of guilt by WT leaders, I don't know what is. They knew those victims would expose WT policies as defecient.
As much as the WT society will try to squirm out of it and not admit fault, they're still at fault - that's why the Candace Conti lawsuit was so important. It has now set a precedent and it's making the WT society very nervous because there are probably hundreds more child abuse cases waiting to proceed in the wings just like Conti's . Good. WT leaders need to get nervous and swquirm, they've slid by for far too long as criminals
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00DAD
How would you respond to the Society's claim that they are not responsible for the criminal actions of the rank and file?
They are not. But they are responsible for their own criminal actions and of any elders following the illegal direction of the WTBTS legal department.
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jeremiah18:5-10
Records are kept in the "Congregation Permanent File" thus the implication was to keep indefinitely, until the person passed away. I tried to find direction on how long to keep them but never could find direction in print when I served as Secretary. Therefore I never threw any of them away.
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DesirousOfChange
1 How long does the Society keep records of publishers diciplinery actions at cong level and at the branch ?
2 How would you respond to the Society's claim that they are not responsible for the criminal actions of the rank and file?
1 -- In the not too distant past, the Cong kept records of any reproof or DFing until the person was reinstated or all "restrictions" removed and they were again in good standing, then those files should be destroyed after 5 years. Files on child abusers had no time limit and were never to be destroyed and BOE at future Congs where the perp would move were to be warned of the past history. The card to report a DF/DA to the Society (S-77?) is kept at the Society forever perhaps. At least on Elders/MS who are DFd.
2 -- I agree that is reasonable. The Catholic Church is not responsible for parishioners who abuse or commit crimes. Their lawsuits all involved priests. This will likely be a major part of the appeal by the WTS lawyers in the Conti appeal. The abuser was NOT a member of "clergy", but only a parishioner/member of the Congs. The "guilt" however of the WTS is the proceedure they demanded on the Congs to stifle the family from reporting the incident to authorities, and their failure to report to authorities (if in a "reporting state"). These policies or failure to follow legal proceedures allowed another child to be abused later. Exposure of the perp would have/should have prevented that. Thus the guilt of the WTS is neglect in doing reasonble efforts to prevent further harm to the NEXT victim.
Doc
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Balaamsass
The "Flock Book" is on pdf.
In the real world, "sexual misconduct" is not a crime. Are you talking disfellowshipping or Private reproof? Disfellowshippings get recorded and sent to Bethel. I doubt they ever shred ANYTHING, despite what they say. The local file is put in a sealed envelope with the parties names & date on the outside and filed in a locked file cabinent at the Kingdom Hall. NO ONE ever cleans those things out (few working JWs are that organized-at least that I met). Perhaps some time in the future an organized, retired, Secretary or C.O.B.E. will check the date, open it read the whole thing and decide to shred it. If the shedder is working.
In the real world the letter that follows you is written by the Secretary. If he is a normal, busy, OK guy, it will be short and vanilla. If a problem was "normal" misconduct (adult male/female) and it was 3 years ago or so, he will follow the latest "RULE". If he or the C.O. B. E. has an ax to grind you may get a mean letter, or a vanilla letter with a phone # to call him so he can smear you verbally. In the real world it seemed Elders who had beefs got longer letters than wife beaters! I only ONCE got a letter about a child molester...the 2 others in the hall slipped through the cracks!
I was a secretary for years. It all depends. I once got mailed a letter for a brother moving in. It was on a napkin with block printing "Good Brother" Christian Love...... I guess his printer was out of paper? 3rd gens letter was "Nice Sister..has some problems" Christian Love....... LOL!!