@ Ninja-matty69, First off, awesome name!! Secondly, yes I am a born in Witness. I still attend meetings. I have been aware of problems in the organization for some time. I still believe in our Heavenly Father YHWH, or Jehovah, I don't think it matters how you refer to him as long as you are sincere. Know one knows how to pronounce his name. it is not a salvation issue in my opinion. I also celebrated the memorial this year in private. I believe that the heavenly calling never closed. All the Rutherford theories on that were wrong and teachings of men. I feel that all true christians partake because it is a command to do so. I do believe in Christianity, but I do not believe the WTBTS is, or ever was God's sole channel for truth. Careful and honest research will prove that to be true. " Captives of a Concept " is an excellent book for anyone to read, as well as any older or out of print publications. Also, anything by Ray Franz. The sole channel is GOD's word and the discernment that the Holy Spirit provides. The organization is not anyone's spiritual "mother ". I am just a person trying to serve God without lies and hypocrisy, and do not consider myself above anyone. I also do not judge any of the brothers and sisters. i just believe that they have been lied to by men who themselves have been lied to. Also, any at the top who know the truth about the " truth " and continue to demand obedience will be held accountable. I hope no one is offended.
When was the last time you had someone appointed in your cong?
by Splash 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Darth Rutherford
Data-Dog... no offense. I have come to the exact same conclusions!
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DesirousOfChange
DOC, I thought the WTS policy was not to delete elders due to ill health or age..........
Blondie, he was forced to move away from the Cong territory to live with family members as he was no longer able to live alone.
Doc
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DesirousOfChange
It's very poor that after a decade or more no brother qualifies for recommendation - what does that tell you about the appointed men?
And the new ones that are appointed, have had no training, no instruction, no mentoring -- just thrown into the water and let them splash around. DREARY meeting parts, BORING talks, NO skills.
Doc
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The Oracle
Just before I left we had two elders removed for watching porn.
Another committed suicide.
Still another, ran off with a young regular pioneer sister and left his wife.
No new appointments.
Things are fairly rosey in JW-land.
The Oracle
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yknot
Last year....(prefer not to mention exact numbers but included Elder/MS both)
We are not as a congregation lacking in appointed men.
Our youngest Elder is in his 40s , oldest nearing 90
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Phizzy
When I was in it had already happened that the standard for being appointed had dropped considerably from the early days of the Elder arrangement, very poor calibre guys were being used as M.S and soon appointed as Elder.
If they cannot find enough at even that low level of quality then they have real problems, again, they are like the catholic church, which struggles to appoint new priests.
The problem stems from the poor retention rate of born in guys, and the converts being so few, and mostly women.
Another pointer that the WT is gradually dying, GOOD !
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Sauerkraut
DATA-DOG: well said, I agree with everything. PM sent.
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Sheep2slaughter
We had 2 MS appointments last CO visit. Both brothers in their late 20s. Both born in but not baptized until a few years ago. Good kids even tho extremely misguided.
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DATA-DOG
I do think this is a huge problem for the Organization. So here they are drifting further and further from what the Bible really teaches( pun intended), the corporation is running the show, the tail is wagging the dog. As a result the men being are used are chosen for corporate reasons, not spiritual reasons. That is not to say they don't have spiritual qualities. It is just that the legal, corporate, organizational, listen to mother, GB worshipping mentality trumps any biblical principles. That, I feel is the reality.
Why can you show an Elder a clear scriptural teaching, even using the exact method they are so proud of, i.e, Pick a subject, look up every scripture, use a concordance, believe the scriptures, and they still cannot accept it?! Thier minds are veiled. It does not matter what the word of God says, it only matters what the GB tells you it says. No one is reading the Bible unless it is the strung together snippets in the watchtower study, which exist only to direct the sheeples thoughts in a certain direction, the corporate one. If you are reading this and getting it, then be grateful, you are in the minority.
This subject could be talked about forever. I guess it boils down to this: Corporate, legal and secular thinking along with idolizing men have created an enviroment where true faith in Christ is almost non-existent. Yes, he is believed in, and mentioned where neccessary, but the real trust goes to the Governing Body. What they, not the word of God says, has the final say. If you do not believe that you limited options. You can go into stealth mode and keep your head down, and see how long you can take it. You can stand up and tell the truth immediately and be DF"d and lose everything, including your family. My personal hope is that I can plant some seeds of truth, and that soon things will get so bad inside the org, that some can be reasoned with. Either way my time is limited, because I simply will not go door to door and say something that is not true. I will probably end up inactive. Since a couple Elder's know I celebrated the passover privately, because my wife turned me in out of love ( probably sincerely, just misguided ) I could end up being labled as just another mentally and emotionally unbalanced one. I can deal with that. I have learned how liberating it is to know the truth, and the feeling of a clean conscience before God and Christ, and men. No one can take that away from you. Being free from cognitive dissonance is incredible as well.
So this whole needing more men to step up, and getting very few, is a reap what you sow situation. If you want corporate yes-men, who question nothing, well you have them. They can give announcements, and hand out magazines and give 30min manuscript talks, and vacuum after the meeting. They can hand out talk slips and count money, and cut the grass, and change the lightbulbs. They can go door to door and regurgitate and presentation for 10hrs a month. They can do whatever the Elders say without question. Can they give any real spiritual help if it is needed? I would say that is very rare. They just don't have the life experience coupled with a love of God's word and a real, personal, relationship with their creator. God is a nebulous figure somewhere off in the distant future, while the GB are the reality, the golden calf, easily discerned, and easily followed.
Here is something to think about. If you are recommended as a servant, it is kept secret. This is after a long meeting goimg over brother so-and-so's " spiritual " qualifications. Basically not much matters except getting the required hours and not making waves. Your name and stats are sent to the branch. Some unknown person looks at the information, and checks a box, yes or no. Absolutely no Holy Spirit is involved whatsoever. So the Elders get your card and then they have you in for another chat. They ask you three question from the Shepherding book. One is have you ever been involved in child-molestation? Why do they ask these questions? Legal and corporate considerations, the Holy Spirit is not involved. It God's spirit was involved there would be no need ask these questions before the appointment was announced to the Congregation. You would never get that far if the Holy Spirit was involved in the first place. The Holy Spirit recommends you to the Elders when they have thier meeting? Then it recommends you again at the branch, directing and unknown brother to check the " yes " box? Then the Elders have to ask you more questions!? Did the Holy Spirit, God's most powerful force in the universe know know whether or not someone was a child molester?! Did the Holy Spirit, the most powerful force in the universe not know that you didn't qualify?!
The truth is that the Holy Spirit is out of the picture. Legal, corporate and organizational procedures have the final say. It is a sad situation. No offense intended towards the younger one's trying thier best. They are being used by a business run by lawyers and men who are under an operation of error, they just don't know it.