....and a new wrinkle (page 4)

3rdgen

I would like to share a true story in my family to illistrate how much a small child can be affected by the meetings and Bible story book.

One day I dropped both my toddlers off at K*****'s so I could enjoy a day of shopping. She was a wonderful young women who's mother was a former witness but who herself was never baptised. She babysat my 2 kids from infancy, and they loved her and so did I. Later I picked them up like usual and we drove off to go home. We barely get out of the driveway when my older child ONLY 3 1/2 YEARS OLD starts to cry with a passion. "What's wrong honey?" I asked. He says "K****** has a Christmas tree. Now she's going to DIE at Armageddon.!!! I don't want her to die"

I was flabbergasted. Absolutely, no way did I, or anyone else I know, ever say anything like that to him. Yet..... he obviously got it from somewhere. My point is that kids pick up SO MUCH MORE than we realize at the time.

outsmartthesystem

"DO NOT LET YOUR WIFE HOME SCHOOL!!!!!"

That's not an option. I've made that clear. My wife was home schooled. She would never admit to it......but I think she knows what a farce her "high school" education was.

"You will not regain their trust until they both feel 'safe' and 'safe' isnt going to happen unless you consistently act like a good dubbie dad/hubby/brother for at minimum of several months......"

Believe me....if that were an option.....I'd take it. I wish I hadn't told me wife how deep the rabbit hole is. If she thought I just had a small issue.....I'd have put on a happy face and made subtle hints in our "family worship night" like so many have suggested. Unfortunately I have been pulling away for over 5 years with me mentioning more and more of my issues to her over time. I have reached the point of no return. I cannot pretend and start going to meetings again. Even if I did......I am not a good liar. She would not trust me for 5 more years.

treadnh2o

Outsmart,

I remember having the same question asked of me by my kids.

Dont be too discouraged. It's 5+ years since I have left the organization and while my wife is still active, my kids now know that being part of this religion is an option and more importantly that a person can be very happy (much happier) by "not going to meetings".

I try to use the JW tactic on them...by "winning them over without a word". It's workingm, but it takes time.

Tread

outsmartthesystem

"It is time to confront your wife . Indoctrinating your daughter against you is wrong and you should not tolerate it in your home ."

This is the problem. She insists she ISN'T indoctrinating them against me. She insists that she just takes them to the meetings and reads bible stories to them. She says that anything my daughter says is of her own acord. Arguing against that just serves to make me look angry/paranoid/psycho. I am very sorry to hear about so many years of your relationship with your dad wasted. It's so hard because my wife INSISTS she would NEVER try to align the kids against me. What do I say? I don't believe you. Your lying?

"You need to have a serious talk with your wife . Stand up for your daughters well being ,mentally and emotionaly.Tell her what is acceptable ,child appropriate teaching and what is NOT .What kind of life do you want for your children ?? It is up to you to provide it ,do not make the mistake of sitting back and letting your wife make all the decisions of the childs up-bringing . You are the Father and YOU have a big say in this you know ."

These talks go nowhere. As soon as she senses that I believe that growing up a JW is bad for children mentally and emotionally she goes into angry Watchtower defense mode. She starts mentioning name after name in the local congregation that grew up JWs and at least appear to be well balanced people. I've told her that I don't agree with the apocolyptic teachings and that all they do is instill fear in children. Naturally she disagrees. She thinks her religion is right and that the end will come any day now. NOT teaching the children that Jehovah is going to kill everyone off would be akin to allowing them to die in her eyes. Simply telling her what is and is not acceptable doesn't matter to her. Remember, armageddon is right around the corner. She HAS to inform them of this. When someone really believes that God is going to kill 7 billion people soon.......getting them to realize what is and is not appropriate to tell kids isn't so easy.

"I have seen JW children dismiss their unbelieving parents ......his daughter very well might be the type to go that route because she feels in her heart that is the right thing to do......"

This is what I fear for my oldest. My youngest is 3 1/2.....but I already see flashing neon signs of a "oh yeah?....PROVE IT" attitude.

"and all the 5 year old is going to discern is 'its daddy's fault because daddy doesn't love and obey Jehovah and he is trying to get me to do it too"

Bingo. She has asked me other questions in the past. Before I can even explain she blurts out "mommy is right and you're wrong".

yknot

I am sorry Outsmarthesystem....

I know you are a good daddy and will do what you think is best for your children...

I'm sure your wife is a lovely sister but sounds like you fell right into the WTS's snare a long time ago....

So frustrating.

I guess if your marriage is gonna fail, like Jamie suggested have all your ducks in a row legally first.

Hate to see the WTS win.

love and huggles

outsmartthesystem

Nika Bee - Thank you for that

"And I do feel he should talk privately to JW mommy about badmouthing him or turning his daughter against him, if that is happening. It's time for a heart to heart with the wife. "

Per my previous statement.....in my heart.....I don't feel like my wife is badmouthing me.....but I do feel like she is coaching my daughter to "obey Jehovah (which means do what you are told at the meetings)" always.....even if daddy or anyone else tells you not to. She won't admit to it though

3rdGEN - Thank you for that as well. I am giving my wife the benefit of the doubt that perhaps my 5 year old is indeed picking these cultisms up all by herself.

Tread - Thank you as well. I need all the encouragement I can get

earthfire

I've read a number of posts here and you know we all wish there was an easy answer. I really feel for what you're going through. I was one of those young kids who was VERY enthusiastic and I agree that her "coaching" could be exclusive to the talks at the KH. Now I'm not suggesting on arguing with a 5 year old but I would definitely not let this go and see what happens. The older she gets the more she'll stick to this thinking. One of the most dangerous things that kids in the congregation don't always get is critical thinking and it is so important to develop this at an early age. She's your daughter too and I wouldn't let your wife dictate everything that she learns. Kids are so much smarter than most adults give them credit for and I would guarantee that she thinks about this topic on her own as well.

Big hugs

whathappened

I can only imagine how upsetting this experience must have been for you. Remember how they use the illustration about a child being like a tape recorder and taking everything in. She is being fully indoctrinated and I am so sorry to hear this. She is still young and with your loving help, she can overcome all this craziness that she has learned.

Let us know what happens next, please.

TheListener

outsmarthesystem, I really feel for you. The stab of pain you must have felt when your daughter said and did that must have been really strong. Your continuing to show love and concern for her and to spend time with her are great. I think the best thing you can do is to let her see by example which parent is less stressed, which parent has unconditional love and which parent puts her and her interests first regardless of what the WTS says.

I have found in my own life that spending as much time as I can with my kids in activities they enjoy has made a really big difference in our relationship.

Depending on your situation and your kids personalities it may be helpful if they see you reading your Bible and when you're with them talking about God or Jesus a bit to them. It might make it harder for your wife and others to paint you as a Godless heathen if the kids know otherwise from a young age.

3rdgen

Dear Outsmart, The purpose of my previous post was to let you know that your wife might not intentionally be turning your daughter against you. However the WTBTS INTENTIONALLY wants to alienate believers from "apostates deserving of death". The Enemy is the Watchtower. Regardless what becomes of your marriage, you will both need to get along enough to parent your daughter. Pick your battles. Assume the problem is the Watchtower because it is.

The good news is this: After my divorce with their father, my teenage children decided they preferred to be with their unbelieving father rather than me.(I still was an active JW) There is much good advice here. Don't dispare. When children are very young, everything is either black or white, good or bad. As they get older they can reason things out better.(especially with your help)

....and a new wrinkle

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