What is this primitive notion of SELF-SACRIFICE?

by Terry 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  jgnat

  Terry: Our court system today is based on the idea of "restoration" or healing of the victim. (Although judicial activism has introduced chaos)

  Quite wrong, at least here in Canada. I am pretty sure the foundations of American law are the same. The only part of the court that is concerned about restoration for the victim is tort law. Criminal law is based on offences against the state. Here in Canada, the Queen is not amused. There is some initiative to rehabilitate the criminal, (in order to protect the state from further harm), and victim's services is a very recent add-on.

  Now, of course many of our laws have to do with our popular desire to protect the victim. Murder, violence, and so on are capital crimes.
• 

  Terry

  Terry: Our court system today is based on the idea of "restoration" or healing of the victim. (Although judicial activism has introduced chaos)

  Quite wrong, at least here in Canada. I am pretty sure the foundations of American law are the same.

  .

  Small Claims is all about restoration. Civil Court has a lowered standard of proof especially helpful when Criminal Court fails to convict. (Think O.J.Simpson)

  If Canadian court has the same system as the U.K. the presumption of guilt is the total opposite of the U.S.A.

  The preponderance of evidence is used to impugn the accused who is PRESUMED to be innocent.

  Canadian courts are probably not afflicted with the same mentality as American courts which is extreme indoctrination by professors from liberal universities. The faculty of most Universities here has been Left Wing for over half a century. It has taken its toll.

  American Juris Prudence falls all over itself to protect the rights of the accused often leaving the victims stymied for a redress of grievances.
• 

  jgnat

  Innocent until proven guilty, here, too.

  Justice in Canada, UK, and the US, contrary to popular belief, is not about obtaining recompense for the victim. If that were so, sentences would consist of some sort of penalty or recompense, to be paid to the victim, from the perpetrator.

  You are making some pretty wild accusations against the courts, there. If American courts are so liberal, why does the US have the highest incarceration rate in the world?
• 

  Terry

  You are making some pretty wild accusations against the courts, there. If American courts are so liberal, why does the US have the highest incarceration rate in the world?

  The comparison may be skewed by length of sentence rather than number of convictions per year.

  A 2008 New York Times article [35] points out:

  Still, it is the length of sentences that truly distinguishes American prison policy. Indeed, the mere number of sentences imposed here would not place the United States at the top of the incarceration lists. If lists were compiled based on annual admissions to prison per capita, several European countries would outpace the United States. But American prison stays are much longer, so the total incarceration rate is higher. ... "Rises and falls in Canada's crime rate have closely paralleled America's for 40 years," Mr. Tonry wrote last year. "But its imprisonment rate has remained stable."

  In the U.S. our sentencing is for longer periods of time and our recidivism is 67.5%.

  Violent crime was not responsible for the quadrupling of the incarcerated population in the United States from 1980 to 2003. Violent crime rates had been relatively constant or declining over those decades. The prison population was increased primarily by public policy changes causing more prison sentences and lengthening time served, e.g. through mandatory minimum sentencing, "three strikes" laws, and reductions in the availability of parole or early release. These policies were championed as protecting the public from serious and violent offenders, but instead yielded high rates of confinement for nonviolent offenders. Nearly three quarters of new admissions to state prison were convicted of nonviolent crimes. 49 percent of sentenced state inmates were held for violent offenses. Perhaps the single greatest force behind the growth of the prison population has been the national "war on drugs." The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelvefold since 1980. In 2000, 22 percent of those in federal and state prisons were convicted on drug charges. [24] [25]

  If, indeed, it is longer sentences and mandatory drug convictions we might reflect on the situation in the black community in the U.S. as contrasted with Canada. The U.S. has 6 times as many black prisoners as white.

  The black leaders say this is merely reflecting racism and not a higher incidence of drug use.
• 

  jgnat

  That last sentence is worded awkwardly. If I am interpreting it correctly, judges could be accused of judicial activisim more often in Canada, but only because they are more independent than American judges.

  By the way, Judges, Attorney Generals, and Senators are appointed in Canada rather than elected. We also have a multi-party system which tends to water down the ideologue compared to the bi-polar politics in the US.

  But at the bottom of this, neither system is designed primarily to get recompense for the victim.
• 

  jgnat

  Whoops, are we editing on the fly, here? You originally quoted the first paragraphs of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_activism_in_Canada

  Now you are copying information explaining the American incarceration rates, which I would think make my point for me. It's not liberal colleges ruining the judicial system in the US; it's mandatory incarceration based on public policy (a Republican response to crime, I would say).
• 

  Terry

  But at the bottom of this, neither system is designed primarily to get recompense for the victim.

  Recompense is a broad term. Seeing the perp brought to trial and convicted is a form of recompense. Civil lawsuit brought O.J. to recompense and

  allowed Ron Goldman's family to confiscate any future earnings of Mr. Simpson. In August 2007, a Florida bankruptcy court awarded the rights to the book (IF I DIT IT, HERE'S HOW IT HAPPENED..to the Goldman family partially to satisfy the civil judgment.

  SEE:

  If I Did It - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_I_Did_It This special had the longer title, O. J. Simpson: If I Did It, Here's How It Happened. Like the original release of the book, the special was canceled. In August ... First release cancelled -

  I had decided the bit about Canda's judicial system wasn't as relevent anyway.

  My point is that the twelvefold increase skews the way we analyze our judicial philosophy. Judges are MANDATED to sentence with 3 strikes policy.

  Judges in Canada presumably are NOT so mandated.

  Drugs may not be all that large a problem in Canada.

  All that aside, Rule of Law in the U.S. is above Government or leaders. Oaths are not sworn to the King or Queen but to God. All men are to be treated

  equally. The Right to remain silent and not self-incriminate is a mandatory warning the arresting officer must repeat to the accused.

  Court Appointed Attorneys are drawn from law firms who must make pro bono representation available for this use.

  Rent Dirty Harry and watch it tonight.
• 

  James Brown

  The primitive notion of self sacrafice is still alive today.

  A certain number of people say they go in the military to sacrafice their lives so America can be free.

  Going into the US military in the 20th and 21st century has nothing to do with freedom but everything to do

  with carying out the wishes of the multinational corporations that control this planet.
• 

  Terry

  If America is surrounded by enemies and nobody wishes to join the military what will be the natural consequence?
• 

  jgnat

  As a Canadian, I am familiar with the US and it's portrayal on film. Watched Dirty Harry. Law and Order is all the rage here.

  An excellent portrayal of Canadian justice can be found on Da Vinci's Inquest, which I am very certain you've never heard of. I appreciate the unique cadence of our use of the English language, our peculiar posturing, and colloquialisms caught by the show. It also clearly shows that we are all facing the same issues in regards to crime and social deterioration.

  The right to remain silent is an international right.

  Drug and Alcohol use in Canada, as compared to the US. Make no mistake, we have our problems, too. In comparing the statistics from the two nations, it is difficult to separate the apples from the oranges. Canada, for instance, separates Cannabis use from other illicit drugs. Compare the American 8.9% of the population (used in past month, includes Cannabis), and Canadian youth (15-24) 4.8%, used in the past year, excludes Cannabis.

  My forehead is getting raw from all the bumping against this particular brick wall. Recompense for the victim is not the foundation for the American, UK, or Canadian judicial systems. Criminals are charged with offences against the State, not individuals; movies be damned.