The Fear of Regret & Apostasy

by Emery 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Sulla

  First let me say that I think you are very out of line with this synopsis of yours regarding my faith and belief system.

  Don't see where I offered a synopsis about your belief system, but ok.

  I don’t think I screwed up badly at all when I reflect on my involvement with Jehovah’s Witnesses. I don’t regret my time in the organization as it has taught me many great things.

  Really? So the JW are not a pernicious lie, then. Or do you mean that believing a pernicious lie is not something to regret?

  Yet, I didn’t lose my faith throughout my studies, in fact, I VALIDATED my foundation of faith.

  My reasons for believing what I do now fall outside the traditions of Christianity. I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ and try to walk according to his ways because I find it refreshing. I do not lose anything in believing this way. I see myself as a non-fundamentalist Christian with agnostic leanings.

  I'm afraid you are going to have to help me out here, Emery. Did you just say that the foundation of your faith is that you find the teachings of Christ to be refreshing? Do you suppose that if I find the teaching of Epictetus to be refreshing, it should serve as the basis of some sort of faith? As for moving through a period where you lean agnostic, discovering XJWs who lean agnostic are not exactly like finding hen's teeth.

  I find JWs to be very full of themselves, a trait that is not usually bleached out by becoming and XJW.
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  whathappened

  Sulle, dear Sulle, everybody is full of themselves. Everybody. It is human nature.

  Emery, i enjoyed your post and appreciate the way you phrased your thoughts. Very well said.
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  Sulla

  very true, what. very true.
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Good for you, Emery. I wish I'd wised up to the deception of WT when I was 26.
• 

  Emery

  @leavingwt, I haven’t read Hassan’s book yet, but I plan on doing so in the near future. I remember seeing some mentions of him on freeminds.org and heard many great things surrounding his books.

  @Sherilynn, I am pretty much doing the same, fading away to hold a line of communication with loved ones. My wife’s mother is a pioneer and devout JW, she would resent me for sure if she found out that her daughter was developing into an apostate. She would probably reason that I poisoned her mind with apostate thinking. Sadly, your husband is right when trying to reason with a jw, it is futile. Thank you again for your well wishes, and I hope that you too find your faith and spiritual peace.

  @apostatethunder & Billy the Ex-Bethelite,I suppose we all have that form of regret when we wake up. I look back and regret not playing sports in high school or playing with a "worldly" band that now plays at Warped Tour :(

  @Quendi, thank you for your warm welcome, I appreciate it. I am little uneasy not knowing the journey of association relating to friendships outside the WTS, but we do feel the emotional and spiritual burden lifted off of us which is balancing things out. No longer do we have have the feeling of condemnation over not doing enough in a bureaucratic system of worship. I enjoyed reading about your spiritual journey and hope that you find happiness where ever it takes you.

  @whathappened,I am glad you enjoyed them, thank you very much for taking the time to read them!

  @Sulla, I find your response and attitude to this topic somewhat bewildering. I am encouraging lurkers here who are on the edge of leaving the WTS to investigate the same books that have helped me. The references made here have an enormous amount of arguments from a theological perspective and can help many who leave with a faith in the bible. Am I speaking from my own views and awakening? Yes, but I am not going about it in a dogmatic fashion.

  Really? So the JW are not a pernicious lie, then. Or do you mean that believing a pernicious lie is not something to regret?

  I wouldn't go as far as saying that everything taught by the organization is a "pernicious lie". I will say that they do advance pernicious interpretations of scripture, however I still agree with some of their stances like; the trinity, holidays, hellfire, political neutrality, and state of the dead. My problem with the Watchtower is in their history, double standards, and claims to authority (FDS). The only thing I regret is not allowing myself to think objectively when I was alot younger.

  "I'm afraid you are going to have to help me out here, Emery. Did you just say that the foundation of your faith is that you find the teachings of Christ to be refreshing? Do you suppose that if I find the teaching of Epictetus to be refreshing, it should serve as the basis of some sort of faith?"

  My faith is found inside the principles of the New Testament and the results obtained by following them. If Epictetus lived a great lifestyle and gave great advice, by all means be an Epictetian. Personally, I have avoided many of life's dramas following the advice of Jesus and the apostles, which is why I find it refreshing and faith strengthening.
• 

  Sulla

  I wouldn't go as far as saying that everything taught by the organization is a "pernicious lie". I will say that they do advance pernicious interpretations of scripture, however I still agree with some of their stances like; the trinity, holidays, hellfire, political neutrality, and state of the dead. My problem with the Watchtower is in their history, double standards, and claims to authority (FDS). The only thing I regret is not allowing myself to think objectively when I was alot younger.

  So, they are totally making up their ecclesiology, but everything else is right on.

  I guess my complaint is that you are confusing unstated biases with being objective. You haven't suddenly become objective and done any kind of real study at all, you have merely changed you set of biases in a way counter to a very small subset of JW claims. I can still smell the JW on you.
• 

  jgnat

  Sulla, your scent receptors are off.

  Emery, I very much related to your story of discovery. "We all have presuppositions (assumptions). Our presuppositions are organic and change according to data. Our beliefs are based on arguments, points, and the best available evidence ... Make it your due diligence to find truth wherever it may lead you."
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  Sulla

  Maybe, jgnat. But I've had dealings with more than my share of JW apologists and know enough to say that they all have the same diseases: they think they have reason and they think they know how to study. They don't, of course, but that doesn't stop them from acting like they invented the iPhone. For example, they love to get into discussions about Greek grammar despite having no education in the subject at all. It is really sort of irritating.

  Anyhow, your average JW apologist is an undereducated and overconfident asshole. A small number of these have egos inflated to the point where, not only do they completely accept the JW bullshit idea that everybody who came before themselves was an idiot and should be completely ignored, they feel like they've outgrown the organization that enabled that feeling in the first place! See, for example, Greg Stafford: a JW super-apologist who finally understood himself enough to know what he was really all about. So he started his own religion.

  So, for a guy like that, leaving the JWs isn't really an accomplishment. Truthfully, it's more of a personal setback. I mean, if that's who you are, why not be a Jehovah's Witness?
• 

  jgnat

  Heck, when I read the introductory post, I got the impression that by taking on the apologist's role, our poster had to seriously revisit all of his preciously held beliefs.

  Not a bad exercise.
• 

  joyfulfader

  This is my first time actually posting. While I dont have any great words of wisdom, i am encouraged by the experiences of those who have been able to find the inner fortitude to question the internal branding most of us received as JW's and make the arduous journey to finding a real basis for faith. I must say that as i read some responses to Emery's personal story i am saddened that there are some who still want to tear down rather than build up. We all have to find our own way to God and our spirituality has to evolve as we examine our former beliefs vs. the beliefs of others vs. reality. How we choose to do that self discovery is personal and a judgemental attitude only perpetuates the narrowmindedness that those of us born-in endured our whole lives and continue to endure as we endeavor to extricate ourselves from the web of guilt and fear.

  I have not been to a meeting in approximately a year and no longer profess to be a witness. I am on my own spiritual journey and yes, i feel regret for not doing this sooner. I just turned 40 and cant believe i wasted so many years as a reg pioneer and active witness. I was the one who always told on myself. Was disfellowshipped twice (the first time was wrongly and that was unbelievably painful) and i kept coming back. I want to apologize to everyone I ever visited. I am trying to work through the regret of lost time but I dont regret deciding it is all a lie. I would love to put in a letter to disassociate but I am very close to my active parents. My sisters and I have all faded and we just do our thing. the letter would be a cathartic thing but the repercussions are too great for me and my child. I am actively searching for answers in every way I know how.

  Thank you Emery for your perspective and good luck on your quest :)

  I am looking forward to participating in discussions on this forum now that I no longer fear the wrath of God for associating with the "mentally diseased" (hate that term!!!!)