My first convention in 20+ years - observations

by jws 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  jws

  perfect1, in brief they essentially said that if there were people alive today that essentially knew somebody who was alive in 1914 that could be considered one generation. That may not be exactly right but that's the general jist of it.

  When the biblical life span of 70 (or 80 if special mightiness) was up in 1994, they changed "generation" to mean some ambiguous amount of time, more like an age or an era. Like the era of the british empire or the age of steam engines. Now as they approach the 100th anniversary of 1914, they decided to redefine it again. Oddly this also gives them a time limit. Might be a very long one though. You might have a 95 year old meeting his 5 year old great grandson. And if that kid lives into his 90's, the generation becomes 180 years, give or take. So, 2094-ish. And if they're not broke/disbanded by then, it gives them plenty of time to re-invent or drop 1914 by then.

  At the convention yesterday they said they were quickly approaching the last day of the last days, which got a round of applause. As the same or similar statements did 40 years ago when I was a kid.
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  trebor

  I am out of the loop as far as the generations and the light. Can anyone fill me in on the current edition?

  http://savedfromthewatchtower.blogspot.com/2010/01/next-generation-is-this-generation.html

  In a nutshell quoting the Watchtower: "...the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation"

  Yup...they can teach just about anything and most of the sheep just swallow it down.
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  designs

  Shock Therapy
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  Twitch

  It's been about 25 yrs since I've been to a meeting or convention. I'd rather beat my nuts with a stick than sit thru that. Your mileage may vary...
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  konceptual99

  The point of the new generations definition is to try and give some flexibility to the timescale whilst maintaining a sense of urgency and expectation.

  The old "era" approach does not hold water when you are knocking 100 years since 1914 and has less implication of a definate end.

  The new overlapping generations thing is specifically limited to two. It does give you the theoretical possibility of spinning things out for the best part of 200 years as per jws' post. However, the society are trying to minimise this however. On at least two occasions at conventions and CA they have suggested this overlap consists of those that have served together. So, you might have someone of the 1914 stock that has served with someone of a younger stock since the 70s/80s. The old one is at best 100 now, the younger in their 50s/60s. That leaves things fluid for maybe 30 years yet is no so far off that everyone thinks it is a load of old tosh or cools off because they think it's years away.

  I can't recall an exact reference to this in print but we've had it at the orignal DC and at a subsequent CA. They reiterated it again at the recent Brighton DC this year.

  The last few years have seen the WTS harden their stance on a number of things to re-establish a sense of urgency and expectation, keep people focused on the ministry and maintain their unconditional loyalty to the organisation. This attempt to try and present logic that explains two essentially mutually exclusive situations is just another example.
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  perfect1

  Thanks for clearing up the generation light business. what a crock.
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  Cold Steel

  Oh, and by the way, this guy isn't even baptized (maybe the beard clued us into that).

  Is it true that if you are baptized that you can't grow a beard? Who made that rule? I remember seeing JW publications that showed Jesus as clean shaven. Now he's got a beard in the latest pubs. What happens if you have a beard and refuse to shave it? In the conversion process, when is the man told this? And what if someone has tattoos? Do they have to be removed?

  Are you guys allowed to drink wine?

  What other unscriptural rules do you have to abide by?

  Regarding race, most of the people who drop by now are black. They used to be predominantly white. What happens now is that two cars full of people show up on a weekend dressed like they're going to a wedding. They knock on the door, but like I said, they don't seem to want to come in. They usually stuff a Watchtower and an Awake! into my hand, then they shove off.

  BTW, do they have to pay for printed materials or does the church pick that up? Also, do they still give out Bibles? They used to give out green Bibles and the translations were terrible. The ink and paper had a distinctive smell that was distracting in that it never went completely away.
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  Scott77

  Very excellent post. jws, seems like you was more alert than all those present. Frankly, I cannot master the courage to attend any Watchtower-sponsored events. I left the organisation a bitter person. I think, people like you are courageous. Thanks though for sharing.

  Scott77
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  jws

  Well, I wouldn't say I had much courage. I live 1000 miles from where I was last a JW and it's been 20+ years. Even if somebody happened to relocate here as well, I doubt they'd recognize me. I discovered the dates where different between my friend's invite and mine. So I went to the weekend for his territory meaning not even the JWs I talked to when they came knocking would recognize me.

  When I went to my dad's funeral up north and saw JWs I knew, it was way more intimidating. My only refuge being it was my father's funeral and hopefully they wouldn't mess with me. But I sure did get cards with notes telling me I should return. As well as verbal expressions of the same. I also worried that at some point, they would try to corner me and try to get a "resolution" to my fading and tie up their loose end. Which I'm reluctant to do as long as my sisters are alive and still JWs.

  But down here, they think of me as just a clever householder and are still trying to love-bomb me to join them. Do you know how free that feels? Maybe if you had the courage to stand up to the ones you know, you do. I can walk into that convention and nobody knows me. Nobody can tell me I should be doing this or that or that I should have worn a suit or whatever. And more locally, on my doorstep, do you know how great it is to stand there and tell an elder to his face that he's not making any sense, that his argument is stupid, and show it to him and watch him get that dumbfounded look on his face? (To which he told me to write the Society). I can argue with an elder and question without reprecussions and it feels so good. And there's not any risk in my situation, so courage not required.

  As for the beard, the reason I noticed that is because I wear what might be considered a beard. Some would call it a goatee, but I've been told the proper name is a Van Dyke. Kind of a mustache and a goatee that go up/down to meet each other. It is kept very neat and very short.

  I do not know current policy and I wanted to more or less look the part of somebody who might be part of a congregation. But back in my days as a JW, the hair I wear on my face would have been frowned on. So I was alert to see how many people where wearing beards. And I think I saw 2 guys, one maybe in his 50's, one in his 60's. And one guy with a moustache.

  The guy in his 60's looked a little out of place. He might have been an apostate. He looked slightly too well dressed and maybe it was the beard and the professor look, but he looked too smart to be a JW.

  So I was a little self conscious about whether my look gave me away.

  Then this guy comes out on stage playing the part of the husband and I'm thinking great! No issues with beards here. There's a guy with a part on the drama and he's got a beard and it's not because he's playing an ancient Israelite. I'm good. Then I find out he's not baptised.

  Well there you go, if you're not baptised, you're always pictured as following worldly trends.

  Another fallacy. I grew up a JW. I knew all the do's and don't's before I got baptised. They always present such people as a bit out of touch as to how to be a JW until they get baptised. Then they get serious and follow the rules. Before I was baptised, I didn't feel like I had any such freedom of choice to play fast and loose with the rules.

  I don't know what the rules on beards are now, but from what I saw, they're still frowned on. Not part of the dress code. Even though I remember a bunch of illustrations of Jesus with a beard.
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  hijosdelawatch

  I don't know what the rules on beards are now, but from what I saw, they're still frowned on. Not part of the dress code. Even though I remember a bunch of illustrations of Jesus with a beard.

  I know brothers from Germany, Belgium and Netherlands with bears and taking parts in congregation meetings. It's curious when they meet in District Assemblies with British and Southern European brothers and they see it. So I think it's really an Elder's rule in each congregation.