Russell, Barbour and ... Albert Barnes - 606, 607, 588, 587 before 1914

by kepler 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • kepler
    kepler

    In the midst of several reading or contributing to several on-going and resurrected topics about calculating one historical event based on a Rube-Goldberg based prophesying formula, I had mentioned a couple of historical leads I thought had some bearing on how this whole process had got under way. Explaining where such ideas come from could be just as fruitless as following the ideas to the follies to which they lead. But nonetheless, perhaps by sharing some more elements of 19th century Americana, there might be some insight after all.

    Theologian Albert Barnes (1798–1870) graduated from Hamilton College, Clinton, New York, in 1820, and from Princeton Theological Seminary in 1823. Barnes was ordained as a Presbyterian minister by the presbytery of Elizabethtown, New Jersey, in 1825, and was the pastor of the Presbyterian Church in Morristown, New Jersey (1825–1830), and of the First Presbyterian Church of Philadelphia (1830–1867).

    He held a prominent place in the New School branch of the Presbyterians during the Old School-New School Controversy, to which he adhered on the division of the denomination in 1837. In 1836, he had been tried (but not convicted) for heresy, mostly due to the views he expressed in Notes on Romans of the imputation of the sin of Adam, original sin and the atonement; the bitterness stirred up by this trial contributed towards widening the breach between the conservative and the progressive elements in the church. He was an eloquent preacher, but his reputation rests chiefly on his expository works, which are said to have had a larger circulation both in Europe and America than any others of their class. Of the well-known Notes on the New Testament, it is said that more than a million volumes had been issued by 1870. The Notes on Job, the Psalms, Isaiah and Daniel were also popularly distributed. The popularity of these works rested on how Barnes simplified Biblical criticism so that new developments in the field were made accessible to the general public.

    What is significant here is that prior to Russell's publishing career, Albert Barnes had been a national figure for his sermons and a series of books that eventually interpreted or provided commentary on nearly every line of scripture, about 10,000 pages in all. Unlike Russell or Barbour, Barnes had knowledge of Biblical languages, which he provided in the text - and access to some of the best libraries in the country (e.g., Princeton). Much of Barbour's digging around was in Australia - literally mining. And Russell, though he seems to be a good grammarian, probably would not feel very encumbered by his organization's current day attitude toward higher education. In court appearances in Canada prior to the war, it was demonstrated he was absolutely ignorant of either Greek or Hebrew.

    Thus, it was said that a 17-volume set of commentaries on nearly every verse of the Bible prepared over several decades; and that the work is filled with cross references to other verses and exegetical texts, u sed by ministers across the country to prepare sermons and originating with Dr. Barnes’ lectures to his Bible study classes. The books were purchased and read by maybe millions of American churchgoers

    So, my point here is that although Barnes was not responsible for any of the conclusions drawn and might not even been aware of either Barbour or Russell, his series of books probably were a source for the two Millerite's speculations. Moreover, once the Watchtower Society was institutional, Barnes' Bible Notes, full encyclopedic editions, was a fixture supporting the writing department. It was in one of Ray Franz's two books where he noted that either his uncle Fred or predecessor Knorr ordered the books to be kept off desks and in the drawers or covered shelves.

    During the last year, I met a trucker and retired railroad engineer who lives on a boat by the bay. He was setting up a website with ancient history chronologies where he relied greatly on Barnes. As a result of discussions from time to time, he decided to give me a preview look. I have to say that he is the ONLY other instance I have ever encountered beside the Jehovah’s Witnesses who claimed that Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed in 607 BC. Chuck Based based this assertion on a Barnes citation. I tracked down Barnes to find out why or how he came up with that and here is what it says.

    Daniel 1:1

    In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem - This event occurred, according to Jahn ("History of the Hebrew Commonwealth"), in the year 607 b.c., and in the 368th year after the revolt of the ten tribes. According to Usher, it was in the 369th year of the revolt, and 606 b.c. The computation of Usher is the one generally received, but the difference of a year in the reckoning is not material. Compare Michaelis, Anmerkung, zu 2 Kon. xxiv. 1. Jehoiakim was a son of Josiah, a prince who was distinguished for his piety, Kings2 22:2; Chronicles2 35:1-7. After the death of Josiah, the people raised to the throne of Judah Jehoahaz, the youngest son of Josiah, probably because he appeared better qualified to reign than his elder brother, Kg2 23:30; Ch2 36:1. He was a wicked prince, and after he had been on the throne three months, he was removed by Pharaoh-Nechoh, king of Egypt, who returned to Jerusalem from the conquest of Phoenicia, and placed his elder brother, Eliakim, to whom he gave the name of Jehoiakim, on the throne, Kg2 23:34; Ch2 36:4.

    -----

    He speaks of Nebuchadnazzar but nothing of king Zedekiah. But now look at what he says for

    2 Kings 25:8 the verse being

    On the seventh day of the fifth month in the nineteenth year of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, Nebuzaradan commander of the imperial guard, an official of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem.

    The nineteenth year of king Nebuchadnezzar - 586 B.C., if we count from the real date of his accession (604 B.C.); but 587 B.C., if, with the Jews, we regard him as beginning to reign when he was sent by his father to recover Syria and gained the battle of Carchemish (in 605 B.C.).

    On that day (verse 9 NJB)“He burned down the Temple of Yahweh, the royal palaces and all the houses in Jerusalem.”

    -------------------

    I thought that that was pretty much the end of the story until I discovered that the encyclopedic Barnes set was published over several decades, some of it post-humously. The New Testament notes came out all together in 1884-85. But beside the dates, it is interesting to contemplate which books of the Bible were given "priority" and the greatest amounts of commentary.

    From the 21st century, one assumes that the whole 10,000 page opus suddenly appeared. But it didn't.

    Title: Barnes' Notes on the Old and New Testaments (26 vols.)

    Authors: Albert Barnes and James Murphy Pages: 10,715

    Title Publisher Date Pages

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------

    Genesis Eates and Lauriate 1873 540

    Exodus to Ruth John Murray 1879 480

    I Samuel to Esther John Murray 1879 510

    Job, Volume 1 Blackie & Son 1847 384

    Job, Volume 2 Blackie & Son 1847 339

    Psalms, Volume 1 Blackie & Son 1870–1872 480

    Psalms, Volume 2 Blackie & Son 1870–1872 450

    Psalms, Volume 3 Blackie & Son 1870–1872 410

    Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon,

    Jeremiah, & Ezekiel John Murray 1879 423

    Isaiah, Volume 1 Blackie & Son 1851 513

    Isaiah, Volume 2 Blackie & Son 1851 446

    Daniel, Volume 1 Blackie & Son 1853 336

    Daniel, Volume 2 Blackie & Son 1853 310

    Minor Prophets, Vol. 1: Hosea to Jonah Funk & Wagnalls 1885 427

    Minor Prophets, Vol. 2: Micah to Malachi Funk & Wagnalls 1885 504

    Matthew and Mark Blackie & Son 1884–1885 416

    Luke and John Blackie & Son 1884–1885 415

    Acts Blackie & Son 1884–1885 400

    Romans Blackie & Son 1884–1885 344

    I Corinthians Blackie & Son 1884–1885 350

    II Corinthians and Galatians Blackie & Son 1884–1885 400

    Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians Blackie & Son 1884–1885 288

    I Thessalonians to Philemon Blackie & Son 1884–1885 316

    Hebrews Blackie & Son 1884–1885 328

    James to Jude Blackie & Son 1884–1885 406

    Revelation Blackie & Son 1884–1885 496

    My own prejudice in these matters is that if Christianity is Chrstrianity, then a hierarchy of study would start with the Gospels and Epistles and then work its way toward examining more minor books. The Old Testament, as I learned late in life, has a hierarchy provided by Jewish scholarship of Law, Prophets and Writings, but I can see that it has long been largely ignored in my part of the world. While Roman Catholics are likely to read the same scriptures over and over again as part of the year's liturgy, Protestants (which I have spent some as being raised as as well) tend to treat all writing in the OT as equal in standing.

    But in addition to all that, when one considers what Barnes volumes were available to Barbour and Russell when they set out on their determinations of when Christ would return, the volume addressing when Jerusalem was destroyed and the temple was ruined was yet to be published. Russell and Barbour could read all they liked about Daniel, Isaiah and Solomon. And if they thought Barnes was supportive of their claims for Jerusalem's destruction, they would likely have cited his notes on Daniel 1:1.

    His later publication of II Kings commentaries would have had to be taken as "New Light". But already it had arrived too late.

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    So, my point here is that although Barnes was not responsible for any of the conclusions drawn and might not even been aware of either Barbour or Russell, his series of books probably were a source for the two Millerite's speculations.

    Not really. Barnes was more in tune with the conventional chronology. Speculation and scriptural number crunching about the end times, Christ's second coming/the Messiah's first coming had at least a 1700 year head start on the Millerites. You also have to allow for the influence of dispensationalism, for the shocking downfall of the Pope in the late 18th century which was seen to be a fulfillment of prophecy, as well as other factors thrown into the eschatological mixing pot and given a good stir by certain 19th century new religious movements.

    I have to say that he is the ONLY other instance I have ever encountered beside the Jehovah's Witnesses who claimed that Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed in 607 BC. Chuck Based based this assertion on a Barnes citation. I tracked down Barnes to find out why or how he came up with that and here is what it says.

    Daniel 1:1

    In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem - This event occurred, according to Jahn ("History of the Hebrew Commonwealth"), in the year 607 b.c.,

    Then your trucker friend misunderstood what Barnes was saying. There was no destruction of Jerusalem in Jehoiakim's reign - only a siege. Without any BC dates, one can deduce from the Bible how long BEFORE Jerusalem's destruction that was. Jehoiakim reigned in total 11 years (non-accession counting), Jehoiachin reigned about 3 months and the last king, Zedekiah, reigned 11 years. So any reader gets a rough idea which time period Dan. 1:1 was talking about.

    As was said elsewhere, where Russell parted company with the more conventional chronologists was the interpretation of the 70 years. Russell would not hear of the 70 years being applied any other way than spanning from after Zedekiah's removal and the sack of Jerusalem to the Jews repatriation in c. 536 BC.

    And if they thought Barnes was supportive of their claims for Jerusalem's destruction, they would likely have cited his notes on Daniel 1:1. His later publication of II Kings commentaries ...

    Barnes didn't publish II Kings - not even posthumously. The commentary you quoted on II Kings 25:8 was actually F.C. Cook's (b. 1810/d. 1889). The 26 vol. work you refer to is a hotchpotch of several different scholars' works. Probably because Barnes' Notes feature prominently among the 26 volumes, the whole caboodle has been attributed to him. A little misleading by the publishers, I think.

  • Old Goat
    Old Goat

    Russell and Barbour did not point to 607 BC; they pointed to 606. The 606 date was derived from Elliott's Horae, a standard work on prophecy. The chronology they used was develped by Christopher Bowern, an Anglican clergyman, and published in the fourth edition of Elliott's book. The 2520 year concept traces to an American clergyman who published in the late 1700s and from him to John Aquila Brown, a silver and gold smith turned prophetic student. After Brown published in 1823 the 2520 year concept became general. Others before Barnes pointed to 607. The Watch Tower was late to recognize the date.

    If you really want to know all the details, you need to read Schulz and de Vienne: Nelson Barbour: The Millennium's Forgotten Prophet. The book is available from lulu.com. It is available as an ebook from Barnes and Noble. It's very detailed and has many, many reliable footnotes. It's refereshing to see real historical research such as this is, instead of crap. Buy that book. Read it.

  • kepler
    kepler

    AnnOmaly,

    RE: "Barnes was more in tune with the conventional chronology. Speculation and scriptural number crunching..."

    Perhaps I should clarify. I am not suggesting that Barnes' work was full of such speculations ( though I certainly haven't checked near enough pages to verify that either). What I am saying is that when either Barbour or Russell sought a foundation for their speculations, they were reliant on sources available in 19th century America - or in Barbour's case England. And dates of publication for the Barnes volumes made speculation based on exposition of verses in Daniel more readily available than II Kings.

    In seeking answers for other matters you raised, I noticed that Darby and other Millerite sources are available on line. I'll leave examination of those sources to someone else. This is headache enough.

    Regarding "Chuck the Trucker's error", I don't think I should demean him in any way for coming to the same conclusion that Charles Taze Russell did. Whether they arrived at their conclusion via the same route, I do not have enough information to verify. Had I been given the same task five or ten years ago and working in a vacuum, I might have drawn the same initial conclusion. It is implied though that just everybody knows the difference between Jehoiakim and Jehoiachin... Maybe it was in your mind, but little in our previous Daniel discussion made that distinction clear either. Any credence I gave the date in Daniel 1:1 came not from reading the Bible but an archeologist discussing Babylonian records. Even the text of Daniel itself, though, would lead the reader to assume that Daniel was taken away in one of the two later sieges. If the chronology were understood as suggested ( early 600s), then Daniel looks like Marshall Petain.

    Circumstances under which Chuck the Trucker and Chuck the Huckster drew their conclusions seem remarkably similar. And 21st century Chuck is just as adamant as the one from a century ago.

    RE: "Barnes did not publish II Kings...

    Here is the on line source.

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/cmt/barnes/kg2025.htm

    4 Kings (2 Kings) 25:8

    kg2 25:8

    The nineteenth year of king Nebuchadnezzar - 586 B.C., if we count from the real date of his accession (604 B.C.); but 587 B.C., if, with the Jews, we regard him as beginning to reign when he was sent by his father to recover Syria and gained the battle of Carchemish (in 605 B.C.).

    ----------------------

    The site itself is a mish-mash of sacred texts and commentaries free of copyright limitations, but I have no ready answer for your claim about F.C. Cook, seeing no mention of Cook there either. The publishing history provided above was derived from another on-line source. Are you saying that Barnes said or would have said something else? Or that nothing about 2 Kings in that era was ever attributed to Barnes at all?

    ---

    Here is some additional discussion of Nelso Barbour from various sources.

    ----------- From one source related to CT Russell biographical data: http://www.pastor-russell.com/misc/barbour.html Nelson Homer Barbour, (1824-1908) a "Millerite" Adventist born in Toupsville, New York USA, is best known for his association with Charles Taze Russell from 1876 through 1881. After several years of wavering faith following the "Great Disappointment" of 1844 he began to study the Bible with the aid of numerous scholarly works that were newly emerging in the mid-19th century. He published his own work in 1869, entitled Evidences for the Coming of the Lord in 1873, or The Midnight Cry. It went through several editions. ... Little is known about his private life other than what was printed in the newspaper biography:

    The Rochester Union and Advertiser for October 5, 1895, (all spelling is as appears in article)

    Nelson H. Barbour was born at Toupsville, three miles from Auburn, N. Y., in 1824. At an early age the family moved to Cobocton, Stueben County, N. Y. From the age of 15 to 18, he attended school at Temple Hill Academy, Genseco, New York; at which place he united with the Methodist Episcopal Church, and began a preparation for the ministry under elder Ferris. Having been brought up among Presbyterians, however, and having an investigating turn of mind, instead of quietly learning Methodist theology he troubled his teacher with questions of election, universal salvation, and many other subjects, until it was politely hinted that he was more likely to succeed in life as a farmer than as a clergyman. But his convictions were strong that he must preach the gospel even if he could not work in any theological harness. And at 19, he began his life work as an independent preacher. ...Mr. Barbour believes that what he denominated the present babel of confusion in the churches is the result of false teaching and the literal interpretation of the parables.

    The Church of the Strangers was organized in 1879. Mr. Barbour has preached in England, in several Australian colonies, in Canada, and many states of the Union. For the past twenty-two years he has published the Herald of the Morning in this city; claiming that in his 'call' to preach, he confered not with flesh and blood. Nor was he called to convert the world; but independent of creed, to search for the truth 'as it is in Jesus,' the 'second man Adam,' believing that the restored faith is a precurser of the millenium and 'Times of restitution of all things.'"

    A somewhat different description of Barbour's life is given in the Wikipedia:

    Barbour was introduced to Millerism through the efforts of a Mr. Johnson who lectured at Geneseo, in the winter of 1842. Barbour associated with other Millerites living in that area. ..

    Adventists in the Geneseo area met in Springwater to await the second coming in 1843. Their disappointment was profound, and Barbour suffered a crisis of faith. ..

    Barbour abandoned his faith. He pursued a medical career, becoming a medical electrician, a therapist who treated disease through the application of electric current, which was seen as a valid therapy in those days.

    He left for Australia to prospect for Gold, returning via London in 1859. There is some evidence that he preached on occasion while in Australia. A ship-board discussion with a clergyman reactivated his interest in Bible prophecy. He consulted books on prophetic themes at the British Library and became convinced that 1873 would mark the return of Christ. This was not a new speculation but had been advanced by others at least as early as 1823.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Sounds like these fellows were more endeavored in coming up with dates and proclamations as a means to heighten interest

    and attention from the public to their own published works, including C T Russell .

    Good old fashion religious charlatanism in the late 1800's .

    The WTS. today is the hereditary offspring of those old charlatans of many years ago.

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    Perhaps I should clarify. I am not suggesting that Barnes' work was full of such speculations

    I know you weren't suggesting that.

    Anyway, as Old Goat pointed out, 606 was Russell's (and Barbour's) chosen date - not 607 - and as I pointed out, any serious scholar or reader of the Bible attempting to piece together a chronology would know his Jehoiakim from his Jehoiachin and his Zedekiah. Russell certainly did! His error came from his (mis)understandings about the 70 year period and his determination to fit those in with his other prophetic interpretations.

    Indeed, Barnes shows he was getting 607 for Daniel's captivity from Johann Jahn and noted that Usher's chronology has it a year later in 606. Russell wrote articles disagreeing with Usher's chronology on that very period and strongly disagreed that the 70 years began in Jehoiakim's 3rd regnal year (ZWT 1896, May 15, p. 105-106 [R1975-R1976]), ergo Jehoiakim's 3rd year couldn't have been 606 and Usher's chronology is out of whack if 536 is a solid date from which to count back 70 years of "desolation, without an inhabitant." That was Russell's reasoning. Barnes' commentary on Dan. 1:1 had nothing to do with it.

    "RE: "Barnes did not publish II Kings...

    Here is the on line source.

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/cmt/barnes/kg2025.htm

    Thanks. It's actually F.C. Cook's commentary. He did 1 Samuel - Esther. The sacred-text site is reproducing the commentary from the 26 vol. set you initially mentioned. The site selling this collection says it's by 6 authors: James G. Murphy, Albert Barnes, F. C. Cook, J. M. Fuller, E. B. Pusey, Robert Frew. Some of the site's descriptions and overview are misleading, e.g. it says the authors of the 1 Samuel- Esther commentary are Albert Barnes and James Murphy but in actual fact F.C. Cook is the author. But as was said before, because the bulk of those 26 vols. consists of Barnes' work, his name has, I think, been given to the whole set.

  • kepler
    kepler

    AnnOmaly,

    Observations by you and OG about 607 BC vs. 606 acknowledged. I don't see much point on my part to insist on the year. But there is still the question of two decades differences between Russell and a source such as Barnes for II Kings. In the table above, I did not include the authors since the publisher claimed it was across the board Albert Barnes and James Murphy.

    What would still be a matter of interest is this: Scholarship or general knowledge in the 19th century would point to a specific date or dates for the destruction of Jerusalem by the Neo-Babylonians. The example I provided indicated that the Barnes series of books provided a date, but it was published in 1879. The date for the event in Daniel was published in a volume in 1851.

    Now going from there, it would make sense to me to examine what was the consensus at the time and why? Did Darby say the temple's destruction was at either of these dates? Is there another well known writer of that era that made a call? My argument for Barnes was that his books were in wide circulation. An Adventist or Millerite publication is valid up to a point. But that does not necessarily mean that was a consensus among historians; nor more than say among astronomers there was a consensus that Mars was covered by canals because Percival Lowell had claimed to obseve them.

    You also mentioned the 70 year desolation argument. I am coming up to speed on this. My first reaction to this was that 70-year declarations amounted to circular reasoning. A prophet predicted something - and therefore because an individual was a prophet it had to happen. Is Jeremiah 25:11-12 a valid citation for this argument?

    "I shall curse them with utter destruction and make them an object of horror, of scorn ... and this whole country will be enslaved to the king of Babylon for seventy years. (But when thaat seventy years are over, I shall punish the king of Babylon and that nation, Yahweh declares, for the wrong they have done, that is the country of the Chaldeans, and make it desolate forever)and against that country I shall perform all the words which I have threatened it.."

    The portion in parentheses in the NJB notes some difference in Greek and Hebrew versions. In the NWT the same idea remains, however, though the translation is a little more gibberish.

    I better understand now the insistence of the pamphlet , "What the Bible Really Teaches" that Cyrus had marched into Babylon and destroyed the city like Sennacherib had done.

    But reading this, just like in Isaiah, I would call a good portion of the prophecy FAILED. The Watchtower built doctrines on scripture passages of prophecy that are demonstrably false by recorded history. Babylon prospered under the Persians and it remanined one of their principal cities or capitals. Alexander chose it as his capital for world empire and died there. Half wrong at best and questionable for the rest. How can the source foundation for the 70-year desolation prophecy proceed on the basis of being absolutely half right?

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    But there is still the question of two decades differences between Russell and a source such as Barnes [read: Cook] for II Kings.

    As was said, the 20 year difference hinges on how the 70 years are interpreted and applied. Russell insisted on his application because it fit with his prophetic/eschatological scheme and would lead to the magic date of 1914.

    What would still be a matter of interest is this: Scholarship or general knowledge in the 19th century would point to a specific date or dates for the destruction of Jerusalem by the Neo-Babylonians.

    The consensus among Bible scholars at the time was that c. 606 was Nebuchadnezzar's accession year rather than his 18th when Jerusalem was destroyed. Both Jahn (1828) and Ussher (1650s) computed that Jerusalem's destruction was in 588 BC.

    You also mentioned the 70 year desolation argument. I am coming up to speed on this. My first reaction to this was that 70-year declarations amounted to circular reasoning. A prophet predicted something - and therefore because an individual was a prophet it had to happen. Is Jeremiah 25:11-12 a valid citation for this argument?

    If careful attention is given to the wording, Jeremiah's words here can fit very well with the established chronology. We know independently of the Bible that,

    - the neo-Babylonian empire conquered and dominated many nations over approx. a 70 year period from c. 609 BC;

    - Jewish captives were taken to Babylon in Neb's accession year; that Jerusalem was besieged in 597 BC, where its king surrendered and was replaced by another of Neb's choice;

    - Jehoiachin and his family were listed in Babylonian court records as being captive;

    - Cyrus conquered Babylon in 539 BC.

    Barnes, Ussher and Jahn had the right idea in applying Jeremiah's 70 years from the beginning of Neb's reign rather than from 18 years into it. Russell and Barbour threw a wrench in the chronological works by insisting otherwise.

  • diamondiiz
    diamondiiz

    "Seventy years. Are we wandering too far afield in discussing this or are we keeping our eyes on the ball?"

    Ahh, Someone is starting to realize that 70 years does play a bigger role than believed earlier.

  • kepler
    kepler

    AnnOMaly,

    I see that you examined in detail the first half of the Jeremiah pronouncement. But not the second.

    Babylon did not die nor become desolate. That part is largely propaganda as are the similar passages in early Isaiah. Even the WTs own position on this is contradictory when it claims that I & II Peter were WRITTEN at Babylon. This is cherry picking biblical "inerrancy" out of a lot of misthrown darts. If we were even to look at why there has been a large community of Jews in Baghdad for millenia, it takes us back to a continued community in Babylon.

    Diamondiz,

    I must sound like Johnny One Note, but to me the 70-year desolation seems to have more to do with adhering to Assyrian and god Marduk's legal conventions, a Geneva Convention for war turned upside down. Evidently, you can't have a proper city eradication unless you invoke procedures to place it off-limits for a lifetime (70 years). Assyrian records for Babylon regarding Sennacherib and Esarhaddon indicate that that had already been done 100 years before Jerusalem - and there was a reprieve by a procedure that Old Testament writers would hardly imagine - or at least share with us.

    But there is also a very similar frame of mind in Millerite movements and 1st millenium BC prophets. We are told to keep our eyes on the texts and listen to their interpretations of what they mean for the world outside. Read the texts and you will understand that Babylon the Great is gone even though it's the 5th century and Herodotus is writing a tour guide about it. Persians will put down repeated revolts there and Alexander will set up world government there. Reading Isaiah and Jeremiah in this regard, I infer that they are telling me that their patron is as good as any army and war god on the block according to prevailing rules. They are not telling me what actually had happened. Or will happen.

    Russell and successors are doing much the same thing. One could wish that similar texts existed in the engineering world so that when a bridge collapsed or a ship sank a white bearded prophet can come out and declare that the event was rendered impossible by prophetic texts.

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