by soft+gentle 68 Replies latest watchtower bible
Atj, sin is evil, the difference between religions is in what they consider evil, for some is something as simple as not agreeing with them, or being “brazen” and making your own decisions in personal matters.
For others is doing harm to others.
There is a difference between right and wrong, not addressing this difference is wrong.
Apostatethunder, right and wrong is different than sin for one reason, the guilt it engenders in the person. Guilt is mentally unhealthy.
Right and wrong should be closely related to "live and let live". Sadly, most (if not all religions) teach that certain behaviors, which are really personal decisions and do not otherwise hurt anyone, are in fact, rejected by "god".
That has nothing to do with right or wrong, that is pure control by religious leaders. It does nothing for the person, nothing for a persons spirituality, and only enhances the control of the religion.
That I have a problem with. THAT is wrong, and a sin over a persons freedom.
I realize that all religions have some of it right, but that doesn't justify the other extraordinary claims, nor the certainty that they give behind their definition of "sin". And that, is harmful to a persons spirituality.
The only people that don’t feel any guilt are psychos. If you are doing something that harms others you should feel some guilt, don’t you think?
The problem is some people only see what is in front of them and don’t realize their actions have consequences for others.
Religions have abused this power over people, but the principle of right and wrong still remains.
My last comment on this is simply, sin is not the same as right and wrong.
Back to the topic at hand, and many thanks for allowing me to share my view.
Jeffro
I really welcome your contributions here - and this is partly because you push me to try and think about what it is about what you are saying that causes me a level of anxiety and impetus to come back and question what you are saying (bit of a mouthful - sorry)
To me what your posts on what is rational imply safety (and not taking risks). In other words rational is to be safe and irrational is to be unsafe - so there is safe, unrisky knowledge (leading to safe tried and tested actions that result in a good life) and there is unsafe knowledge leading to untried and untested actions resulting in irrational thoughts and actions).
alltimeJeff and Fernando - thank you. I really like what you both (but in different ways) have implied by your thoughts on spirituality and it is very similar to what I am begining to see. To me the expression live and let live and an awakened condition together with multiverse ideas expresses the idea of freedom together with the actions taken by free people and particularly when these actions are animated by what other freeing people have said and done. So I guess this would provide a place for art, poetry, philosophy, politics and such provided that they stimulate not just inspiration, awe and wonder but also something risky and seemingly irrational, something untried and untested?
rather be in hades thanks for your summation of the two extreme positions and then the mixtures in between and your conclusion that religion and spirituality are not mutually exclusive.
somewhere can we also bring Christopher Hitchens' views into the mix?
thanks apostatethunder - nice name
To me what your posts on what is rational imply safety (and not taking risks). In other words rational is to be safe and irrational is to be unsafe - so there is safe, unrisky knowledge (leading to safe tried and tested actions that result in a good life) and there is unsafe knowledge leading to untried and untested actions resulting in irrational thoughts and actions).
The scientific method is entirely based on rationality, but scientific discovery is predicated on questioning, and taking risks in regard to previously held views. The correlation you've posed between rationality and safety is therefore flawed.
Hey AllTimeJeff!
I get what you're saying and largely agree.
Religion has indeed misrepresented sin and induces unnecessary guilt for the purposes of control.
I have come to understand sin as dysfunction, corruption and aberrance.
Religion's message of STOP SINNING, is... well... not possible...
When Jesus was commenting on looking at a woman (who is not your wife/partner) with a passion I believe he was saying "see you all do sin" instead of STOP SINNING.
For me personally the Mosaic law is a mirror which reveals my dysfunction, corruption and aberrance. It makes me see my need for God's generous and priceless FREE GIFT of an IMPUTED right and clean standing, along with IMPUTED eternal life, sinlessness and perfection. This is the core of the "good news" that Watchtower religionists know nothing about. There is nothing that undermines and threatens the power, authority, control and glory of the Pharisees and Sanhedrin more. There is nothing they secretly hate and fear more, as proven by "Franzgate 1980".
