No need to read COC etc to know its bull. (page 2)

Beck_Melbourne

Sleepy

I am only reading COC now....and I can't explain how it feels to have someone else put my pain/sorrow/loss/heartache into words. The only time I've experienced that is reading other posts/threads on this forum. Franz puts things into perspective for me...and his outlook on things reinforces to me that I made the right choice. It is still a worthwhile read...even though I haven't completely read it all yet. But I agree..I feel that I don't need to read it to know the truth aint the truth to me no more.

Beck

SYN

I've read bits of it, but I found that the online resources of today are also an excellent way to mentally (and perhaps physically?) distance oneself from the BOrg. If you need a BOOK to see the real tR0oF, then something's not right! That said, it is a good book, and I hope to buy it soon!

The earlier in the forenoon you take the sun bath, the greater will be the beneficial effect, because you get more of the ultra-violet rays, which are healing. - The Golden Age

joelbear

The main thing that I learned from reading Crisis of Conscience that absolutely stunned me what that matters of doctrine and policy were determined by vote.

The truth is determined by a vote?

Before that I had always believed that doctrine and policy were arrived at through prayer and discussion and that the F&DS were united in their positions by the power of the holy spirit.

I could overlook many things: 1975, mistakes in policy, doctrine, Mexico etc. if I knew that the group had screwed up through means of misunderstandings, misjudgements, human frailty, etc.

But, knowing that they are really just a committee going through a bureaucratic operation is something that I don't think I'll ever get over.

Joel

JT

It is clear that some of you really don't understand what COC does.

there is no other book or internet site that provides you with the type of info that this book does,

without the net the vast majority would have perhaps left wt ,but never really knowing or understanding the things we do now

in my view rays book is simply an addition to what many of us felt or wondered about

one of the constant problems as to why a jw can't leave many times is due to not being able to get a confirmation

if you talk to any of us we all can relate how we felt something was wrong, it sorta like someone comes in the house with dog shit on thier shoes, well you man not know who has it on their shoes but you surely can smell it

same with rays books most of us smelled the Sh!t in wt , we just didn't know who had it on thier shoes

the avg jw has no problem getting pissed off with the local elders and thier wives and attitude , perhaps some can get it to the level of the CO. but how many jw do you know who get pissed off with the DO or the Branch committee in thier country, and if the avg jw can't get his anger past the local elders or CO they will never reach the man behind the curtain the GB
all ray book did was take the you and into the inner chambers -

and for any of you to think that you would have seen or read GB notes and memos on someother site or other book written by some local elder or CO you are kidding yourself

i don't understand why so many folks have this OBESSION WITH FRANZ

in my view he told me what he knew and it confirmed what i thought and i got the hell out

what more do folks want. damn

many of us have never looked up ray as some special savior, just a whistle blower- who didn't have to do what he did, he was under no obligation beyond his on personal conscience.

be thankful the guy gave you some extra pcs to the puzzle for some of us we thank him - perhaps for some of you - you are just the type of person who is smart enought to figure it out on your own.

I had already made up my mind that i was leaving in the year 2000 regardless, rays's book just got me out 2 yrs earlier and i am thankful for it has made it possible for me to build a home and change careers and start saving retirement, and miss out on 2 extra years of spending my time in boring worthless meetings and selling worthless books on the weekend]

i know look forward to Sundays i can stay in my Drawers all day and chill while jw sit with eyes wide open listening to boring talks that are to make them feel more guilty than when they walked in

just my 2

james

garybuss

As a practicing Witness in my teens and twenties, I looked for consistency. That is, I looked to see if the behaviors of the group leaders, the local agents of the leaders, and the group members, matched the professed group teachings.

So often they didn't. At first my efforts went into trying to get the people, who's behaviors did not conform with teachings, to comply. Failing that, I tried to justify their behaviors. Failing that, I labeled them and pigeonholed them; good, failing, failed.

The good and the failing, this group of people I did not know, and when I got to know them, I lowered their ratings.

The Watch Tower Publishing Corporation's volumes of publications highlight the distance between the presented teachings about the behaviors of the group members and the actual behaviors. For example: Teach love and practice the hate of shunning; teach unity and divide families. All of us could expand the list to infinity.

As former Witnesses, much of the discussion centers on the difference between the teachings about the behaviors and the actual behaviors, i e. the United Nations affair.

Many of our early contacts with practicing Witnesses have had as an agenda, the goal of acquainting them with the difference between the teachings about the behaviors and the actual behaviors. Like they don't already know. Then they are put in the position of seeing us as their attackers, and they defend that which they must defend. They are trapped.

To accept that the teachings and the behaviors do not match, never did match after Rutherford took over, and that they never will match, is to be close to resolution.

Resolution does not confront or need to expose conflicts to believers or to affect exits. Resolution is comfortable and does not try to re-write history or rescue the players in our personal dreams from their own delusions.

gb

sunscapes

yes, thanks, James, and I appreciate what you post even more because of your perspective of an insider smelling all that excrement day in and day out -- I only get the warm fuzzy image all the time reinforced by videos like "The Whole Association Of Brothers" and stuff like that. When I was a kid growing up I went on a Bethel tour but still noticed that a lot of the niceties seemed forced. Insider perspectives since have confirmed alot of my suspicions.

JT

sunscapes

we all have to share our own exp and when combined together it helps all of us to get a clearer picture

some of us have more pieces of the puzzle to share but we ALL have pcs TO SHARE and when you put them all together then the picture of what we were involved in and a part of becomes crystal clear

WE NEED EACH OTHER and should cease with all the foolishness that many of us PERFECTED WHILE IN WT

sunscapes

I agree -- it is amazing how harping over Pharisaical petty issues is deeply ingrained in our lives and treating others. Like you say -- we need each other -- ironically the wt harps over not forsaking association for its own -- so to break the shackles of the mind control we need to fight fire with fire as it were.

No need to read COC etc to know its bull.

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