Depressed Soul, yes a few individuals in the Bible were predestined but though Christ's betrayal was prophesied that does not mean that when Judas was conceived in the womb his path was sealed. He may have been chosen for his bad tendency but a whole host of other men at the time could have filled the bill.
God & JW can't exist without "evil"
by thedepressedsoul 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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thedepressedsoul
That would still mean Jesus had to choose one person that would have betrayed him. That means he chose a man who had a weakness or bad tendency just to play on or use that weakness to fulfill prophecy. That "other man" would be just as doomed as Judas without ever know he was chosen to fulfill an evil role. Instead of trying to cure that persons bad tendencies you promote it. What's worse is that you know the person will fail before the person with the weakness ever does. It's like being a heroine addict and someone using that addicted to their advantage or for a purpose.
The predestination either started when those words were prophesied or when Jesus chose someone knowing they would fulfill that role.
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Viviane
Depressed Soul, yes a few individuals in the Bible were predestined but though Christ's betrayal was prophesied that does not mean that when Judas was conceived in the womb his path was sealed.
So invisible guy in the sky DOESN'T know everything? He is NOT omniscient, as Christians and the bible claim? That means it is NOT the god you claim to worship.
He may have been chosen for his bad tendency but a whole host of other men at the time could have filled the bill.
So god picks, specifically, who he will kill and what sin they will commit even before they have done wrong? So it was predestined before he made the choice, contrary to your prior claim.
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Hold Me-Thrill Me
Viviane: I implied no such thing. You made that assumption, incorrectly and now presume to have the arrogance to falsely claim I said something I never said nor implied and have the audacity and hubris to attempt to blame me for your error.
You should be ashamed for accusing me of your error.
I enjoyed that, very entertaining. So, what's next? Are you going to pick up a shoe and throw it at me?
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Viviane
I enjoyed that, very entertaining. So, what's next? Are you going to pick up a shoe and throw it at me?
I would never think of inflicting physical harm on someone else without it being a life or death situation.
The fact that, when called out on your shameful dishonest behavior, is the first think you thought of, shows that you are indeed a typical Christian. Intellectually dishonest with threats of violence as your backup.
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Hold Me-Thrill Me
Depressed Soul, Jesus knew from the beginning who would betray him and who among his disciples did not believe. "From the beginning" is thought to mean from the time Judas became his disciple or chosen as an Apostle. Because Jesus knew the man's heart his course was set but not because he could not change but rather because he would not change. There is a big difference.
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thedepressedsoul
I'm not sure of your point or reasoning there Hold me.
I'll answer as I took it. Did Jesus not have a moral obligation to warn Judas that when he chose him as a disciple that he would do this horrible act? I highly doubt Judas went into the situation to betray him.
It's as if I knew someone would steal from me yet in return I'd get a large settlement from my insurance company. I let the person steal from. Do I not share in that crime or have an obligation to try and warn that person not to steal?
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Viviane
Jesus knew from the beginning who would betray him and who among his disciples did not believe. "From the beginning" is thought to mean from the time Judas became his disciple or chosen as an Apostle. Because Jesus knew the man's heart his course was set but not because he could not change but rather because he wouldnot change. There is a big difference.
Wait, so god DID predestine a person to betray Jesus and die and IS omniscient? Earlier you claimed that was untrue.
Which is is it?
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thedepressedsoul
Right, Viviane? I thought I was going crazy. One line he chose someone to do the crime and the next it wasn't predestined.
It reminds me of someone trying to explain the trinity or 1914. My head hurts after as they counter their previous statement.
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Viviane
Right, Viviane? I thought I was going crazy. One line he chose someone to do the crime and the next it wasn't predestined.
It reminds me of someone trying to explain the trinity or 1914. My head hurts after as they counter their previous statement.Basically, the argument goes like this... "A = A, which also = B, except A = 1 and B = 3.14159.... and A also = !A, with happens to = B when it doesn't = 3.14159... except when it does, which equals both A and !A."
It's an exercise in contradictory ridiculousness.