JWs And Near Death Experiences

by Cold Steel 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Cold Steel

  I've studied near death experiences now for a couple of years, and the more I read, the more I'm convinced people are actually experiencing true out of body occurrences. Regardless of religious and social backgrounds, people report seeing a brilliant light that, despite its brilliance, does not hurt their eyes. They also see family members and friends, and frequently have guides that impart intelligent information. These experiences are not dreamlike, but are highly detailed, and many people report that they see old friends that they knew before they were born. Not only did the ancient Christians believe that man has a spirit that survives death, many believed they existed before they were born. Even the prophet Jeremiah wrote: “ Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, ‘ Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.’” (Jeremiah 1:5)

  Some JWs dropped by today and left me with a booklet entitled Good News From God. In the section entitled “What Hope Is There For the Dead,” the author talks about Lazarus being raised from the dead. “When we die, our brain dies too,” the article states, “and our thoughts perish. Thus, Lazarus said nothing about his experience of death.” But how does the author know that Lazarus said nothing about his experience of death? The Bible doesn’t contain everything everyone said. Lazarus could have talked his head off about his experience and it might not have been recorded. The scripture is about the Savior and the miracles He performed. If Lazarus had experienced an “out of body” experience, there’s no reason for it to have been included as it would have drawn attention away from the story being told.

  Has near death experiences ever been covered in a JW publication? If so, how did they address it? I can understand people dismissing them if they were simple ethereal happenings, but people experiencing them talk about highly detailed conversations with others who have passed, and often with angelic guides who convey intelligent information.

  So what’s YOUR take?
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  exwhyzee

  Lazarus could have talked his head off about his experience and it might not have been recorded.

  Good point...and very amusing too !

  I'm glad you brought this topic up as it has also come up three other times this week and I'm beginning to see some common threads that make me think there is something to this. When my Mom (also a JW) died of Cancer at 57 she definetly said things toward the end when she was coming in and out of consciousness that made me think she was seeing something good and pleasant.We thought it was the medication talking but it seemed to be more than that somehow. Her eyes were closed and she sort of smiled and reached out as if she was trying to touch what she was seeing. One of the Elders from the hall said "who's to say what pleasant little image or thought Jehovah might put into the mind of those who are dying" We were just happy that whatever it was, she was at peace and seemed not to be resisting. The nurse told us that sometimes people hang on because they don't think their families are ready let them go. My siblings and I sat next to her bed around the clock and at the last together we told her that we'd see her again and that we'd be ok and it's ok if she'd like to go. A tear rolled down her cheek and my Sister said to me "maybe she's not ready" Suddenly Mom spoke and quietly and most assuredly said "I am ready". That was the last thing she ever said. She died in the small space of time between when my Sister left the room as I was about to enter it. The nurse said that happens all the time. They want privacy while they die. While she was lucid, Mom said dying isn't as bad as it might look.

  I think there is a lot more to life/death/dying/God etc than we will ever know on this side of things. All I know is that I have a strong sense that we'll be pleasantly surprised by what is in store for us and we'll have a good laugh at all of our silliness and bickering over such matters.
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  biometrics

  This topic has intrigued me for some time, and ultimately led me to question JW death sleep doctrine. I've read every account of NDE I could find on the internet. And watched every interview of people who've experienced NDEs.
  
  I couldn't reconcile JW doctrine with some of the scriptures. Especially Luke where Jesus describes Lazarus and the Rich Man. Could it be any clearer than that?
  
  I'm convinced that when you die one of these things will happen:

  1. You are taken somewhere dark but given a chance to repent, if Jesus allows it.
  2. You are taken somewhere good by angels of Jesus.
  3. You are taken somewhere evil by demons.
  4. Your soul sleeps until Jesus arrives.
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  smmcroberts

  I recently posted a blog article on this very subject: Elder Nelson's Near-Death Experience.

  I also recently took a "Teaching Company" course on neuroscience, and the instructor discussed these experiences. It's interesting to note that mountain-climbers sometimes have similar experiences:

  At 2,500 meters or higher, some mountaineers report perceiving
  unseen companions, light emanating from themselves or from their body
  parts or the body parts of others, a second body like their own, or a figure
  where there is none.

  He went on to give a rational explanation for the phenomenon, which in brief is as follows:

  low oxygen, intense exertion, and
  stress, may account for these phenomena...

  Evidence supports the idea that
  out-of-body experiences depend
  on the temporal parietal junction.
  The temporal parietal junction of
  the brain seems to be involved
  in spatial self-perception and,
  thus, may be a candidate for
  understanding these phenomena...

  Visions and visitations seem to be associated with the temporal lobe. The
  temporal and parietal lobes of the cortex are involved in visual and face
  processing, as well as emotional events. Oxygen deprivation is likely to
  interfere with activity in neural structures, and the temporal and parietal
  lobes seem particularly susceptible to oxygen deprivation.
• 

  TJ Curioso

  Not all, near death experiences have a cientifical explanation. There are cases in which blind people, when "resuscitated" by medical staff, report facts that only someone who actually saw these things could do. Other when "get out of their bodies" for a period of time, even reported that their relatives had conversations in remote locations, at the time and / or their reactions to the situation. I do not believe that science has yet explanation for such situations.
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  smmcroberts

  "Anecdote": An uncontrolled or poorly documented observation or experience.

  ...anecdotes are a very dubious form of evidence
  because the variables are not controlled and the observations
  are not systematic. The reason why that is a problem is because
  anecdotes are a way of subconscious data mining and are subject
  to confirmation biases, memory effects, and other cognitive biases.

  The above quotes are from Steven Novella, M.D., Academic Neurologist at the Yale School of Medicine (taken from his course entitled "Your Deceptive Mind:
  A Scientific Guide to Critical Thinking Skills").

  When subjected to objective scrutiny all supposedly supernatural events have resolved to natural explanations. (Which is why no one has yet collected on the Amazing Randy's million dollar reward for providing proof of the supernatural.) However, very often such scrutiny is unavailable, and we end up taking the friend-of-a-friend stories at face value if our baloney-detection kits aren't switched on.
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  Cold Steel

  Yes, even though the story of Lazarus was a parable, Jesus never used false doctrines to create parables. It would be like Jesus gathering his apostles together and saying, “One day Jehovah was speaking with Zeus, and Zeus said, ‘Look how many Greeks believe in me!’ And Jehovah said….” Nah, it wouldn’t happen because, as stated, Jesus does not use false doctrine to teach. Besides, look how many times the New Testament books refer to our bodies as “tabernacles” in which we lived. And the prophet Daniel wrote: I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body.” Uh...anybody home, McFry??

  The scriptures say Jesus went to teach the spirits in prison which were once disobedient in the days of Noah. The JWs say these were the disobedient angels which took on flesh and had sexual relations with the “daughters of men.” This is actually a misunderstanding of scriptures along the same line as Lilith, the first wife (supposedly) of Adam. The “sons of God” were actually the people of God who married outside of the faith (the daughters of men). The offspring were “men of renown” who simply lacked a knowledge of God and lived in wickedness. Some may have otherwise been honorable men, but their lack of knowledge of God condemned the world to a cleansing. The notion that they were angels was a Gnostic belief, not a Christian one.

  Spirits lack the ability to take on human flesh, otherwise why are all men resurrected in the flesh? And why do the JWs believe Jesus was resurrected as a spirit when He took such pains to show them His body was physical? His physical body was gone, with the shroud folded neatly where He lay, and He invited the apostles to “handle me and see” and that “a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see I have.” How much clearer could it be?
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  caliber

  Makes you wonder about the difference between the body and the spirit. Is continual life of the spirit after the body dies implied here ?
  
  and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7).

  The grave below is all astir to meet you at your coming; it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you - all those who were leaders in the world; it makes them rise from their thrones - all those who were kings over the nations (Isaiah 14:9).

  As JW's we are taught that the soul is you... but how does this fit in ?

  1 Kings 17:21-22
  King James Version (KJV)
  21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the Lord, and said, O Lord my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
  22 And the Lord heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived

  Are life and death are two states of existence, rather than existence and non-existence. ?
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  Ding

  Interesting thread.

  One hypothesis is that when people are near death, they will hallucinate what they expect to see or what they hope to see.

  A JW wouldn't expect or hope to see anything at all outside of his or her body, so it would be interesting to hear what, if any, near death experiences they have had.

  Of course, a JW who had such an experience and survived might be very reluctant to talk about it because it wouldn't match WT teaching at all.
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  exwhyzee

  Its funny how you never hear of near death experiences of individuals who saw the devil or hell fire or dead realatives warning them not to "cross over". All you hear about is a white light or welcoming loved ones and other pleasant visions.