JOB-Was He Used As A Gambling Pawn?

by PaintedToeNail 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • PaintedToeNail
    PaintedToeNail

    The book of Job describes a conversation between the devil and Jehovah, as everyone knows. However, Satan knew Jehovah intimately and would have been well aware of Jehovah's ability of foreknowledge. One would have to imagine that Jehovah could have easily just told Satan that Job would in fact be faithful and therefore spared Job the agony he went through, as he had insight because of his foreknowledge that the spirit creatures should have understood.

    Did Jehovah and Satan have a high-stakes game going? Was Job and his family the ante? That's what is seems like, but then the foreknowledge question needs to be dealt with.

    If there was no foreknowledge available to God, then he would have played the ultimate high-stakes poker with with highest ante ever. This should allow Jehovah's Witnesses the latitude to gamble for sport, as all they would have would be their material possesions, not their lives, in the pot.

    Thoughts anyone?

  • Robdar
    Robdar

    I have some thoughts about it: Christians shouldn't try to interpret Jewish Scripture because it will only confuse them. They should stick to their own testament and leave ours alone.

    Lewis Black, a Jew says it best. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGrlWOhtj3g

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    The book of Job describes a conversation between the devil and Jehovah, as everyone knows. However, Satan knew Jehovah intimately and would have been well aware of Jehovah's ability of foreknowledge. One would have to imagine that Jehovah could have easily just told Satan that Job would in fact be faithful and therefore spared Job the agony he went through, as he had insight because of his foreknowledge that the spirit creatures should have understood.

    Did Jehovah and Satan have a high-stakes game going? Was Job and his family the ante? That's what is seems like, but then the foreknowledge question needs to be dealt with.

    You're assuming as most Xians do that the character mentioned and even translated as Satan IS the same character.

    HOWEVER, remember that early Hebraic thought didn't include the notion of a Satan/Devil; so realize that whenever you see Satan mentioned in the OT, it was likely a later addition to the translations (e.g. Septuagint) to support the Xian concept. The practice starts early in Genesis, eg Gen 3:15, where the serpent is interpreted by Xians as Satan in disguise, and the scripture is seen as the first foreshadowing (prophecy) of Jesus.

    But back to Job: Realize that Job's account was likely one of the oldest books of the OT, likely written before the Torah.

    From http://bible.cc/job/1-6.htm

    Barnes' Notes on the Bible

    It (Satan) was a word, therefore, early used in the sense of an adversary or accuser, and was applied to anyone who sustained this character, until it finally came to be used as a proper name, to denote, by way of eminence, the prince of evil spirits, as the adversary or accuser of people.

    An opinion has been adopted in modern times by Herder, Eichhorn, Dathe, Ilgen, and some others, that the being here referred to by the name of Satan is not the malignant spirit, the enemy of God, the Devil, but is one of the sons of God, "a faithful, but too suspicious servant of yahweh." According to this, God is represented as holding a council to determine the state of his dominions. In this council, Satan, a zealous servant of yahweh, to whom had been assigned the honorable office of visiting different parts of the earth, for the purpose of observing the conduct of the subjects of yahweh, makes his appearance on his return with others.

    Similarly, the claims of God possessing omniscience was NOT common in the OT, but grew increasingly common as time went by (eg in Isaiah, likely written hundreds of years after Job's account). Readers of OT cannot assume God's divine fore-knowledge as existing throughout, since it wasn't ascribed to God in Genesis (e.g. implications of the original sin, or YHWH's infamous 'double regret' in Noah's flood, etc, etc).

    Here's a funny YouTube video on Job:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVgZqnsytJI

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    If there was no foreknowledge available to God, then he would have played the ultimate high-stakes poker with with highest ante ever. This should allow Jehovah's Witnesses the latitude to gamble for sport, as all they would have would be their material possesions, not their lives, in the pot.

    Thoughts anyone?

    JWs frown on gambling as THEY want that money! Give it to them, not a bookie or lottery ticket (which is a tax on those who've never learned stastistics, so their money can go to support education and raise a generation who does understand stastistics...)

    So buy that lottery ticket or bet on the ponies and live in peace... Getting DFed is a blessing in disguise from a non-existent God (just don't get addicted to gambling: you're on your own!)

  • botchtowersociety
    botchtowersociety

    Job isn't a literal story. It is a morality play.

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    BTS said:

    Job isn't a literal story. It is a morality play.

    Good luck convincing the Bible-literalists JW's of THAT, lol!

    Just out of curiosity, what do you think the moral message of the story of Job is?

  • james_woods
    james_woods
    Just out of curiosity, what do you think the moral message of the story of Job is?

    If you don't do what Satan tells you (with God's permission), you will get zits ALL OVER YOUR BODY and have to scrape out the puss with broken glass.

    Also, all your kids will die and you will go bankrupt.

    However, if you stay stubborn and live with the zits, you will get back your money and have new kids (just not the exact same ones).

    Then, God and Satan will cash in their chips and retire to the bar for cocktail hour.

  • botchtowersociety
    botchtowersociety
    Just out of curiosity, what do you think the moral message of the story of Job is?

    That would take paragraphs. It is a very deep and rich story. In my opinion, it is the greatest work of literature in the OT. It is, for one thing, a criticism of God. It is also a commentary on human suffering, and the injustice in the world. There are many layers. Why do good people suffer? The book considers the question throughout, and in the end, it does not answer it.

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    BTS said:

    The book considers the question throughout, and in the end, it does not answer it.

    No? I think YHWH answers it quite conclusively, in essence saying, "Look, I made the Universe, so do what I say, or bad things will happen to you... You are a mere maggot, and you couldn't even understand my mysterious ways if I explained it to you, so just do what I say, and it'll go easier for you."

    That's "deep and rich" to you? WOW! You'd LOVE my drill instructor when I went thru boot camp as a kid!

    (That also explains something about your political leanings, I suspect....)

  • botchtowersociety
    botchtowersociety
    No? YHWH answers it quite conclusively, in essence saying, "Look, I made the Universe, so do what I say, or bad things will happen to you... You are a mere maggot, and you couldn't even understand my mysterious ways if I explained it to you, so just do what I say, and it'll go easier for you."

    Exactly, and that is not an answer to the question. The answer remains a mystery. Job is forced to accept that he cannot know.

    That's "deep and rich" to you? WOW! You'd LOVE my drill instructor when I went thru boot camp as a kid!

    Job is a profound book. Here it makes the list of top 100 books of all time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100_Best_Books_of_All_Time

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/may/08/books.booksnews

    You'd LOVE my drill instructor when I went thru boot camp as a kid!
    (That also explains something about your political leanings, I suspect....)

    Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit