Well have fun talking to yourself.
Do We Exist As a Material Person In a Material World?
by JamesThomas 21 Replies latest jw friends
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botchtowersociety
90% are bacteria?
That is actually pretty factual.
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King Solomon
90% (of cells) are bacteria?
That large number refers to the so-called commensal bacteria that are part of the human microbiome, and are absolutely critical to our survival.... They reside mainly in the gut, but also skin, etc.
It seems that the non-material consciousness within all of us, that which perceives a "world" of persons, places, and things -- may be all that really exists.
Nice try, but NOPE: no one has proven that there IS "non-material consciousness" (AKA soul, spirit, etc). It's the most prevalent ancient myth still with us today in 2012, and carried with us from prehistoric times.
In fact, what we know is that the collection of synapses in the brain DOES account for your consciousness, and is highly dependent on the electrical impulses received from the sense organs to create your perception of the World. In fact, it's one of the philosophies found in the Bible believed by JWs which science supports: the Essenes believed that we are material beings, and when dead, it's DONE (i.e. "the dead are conscious of nothing"). We won't mention the idea of bodily resurrection in the New System™: that's back to Whacky Land.
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botchtowersociety
I think we know next to nothing regarding consciousness. But it must be nice to have all the answers. Comforting. Kind of like being a JW and knowing everything.
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HintOfLime
I have an experiment that should help determine if we are physical things in a physical world!
Hypothosis
Humans are physical entities, living in a physical universe, and subject to the laws of physical matter.
Materials needed
- 1 Human
- 1 30' Measuring Tape
- 1 sturdy brick wall
Procedure
Step 1: Extend measuring tape starting from one side of the the brick wall outward and perpendicular to it. The 0 end of the measuring tape should be affixed to the brick wall, while the 30' end is away from it.
Step 2: Position a human 50 feet from the side of the brick wall opposite of the measuring tape.
Step 3: Have the human run as fast as they can toward the brick wall, being sure they do not slow down as they encounter the brick wall.
Step 4: Using the measuring tape on the opposite side of the wall, record the distance the human reaches. Record the result as Data Point A.
Repeat the experiement at least 20 times to ensure a sufficient sample size, and average the data points.
Results
A result for "A" above zero could indicate that the human is not a physical being.
If you choose to participate in this experiment, you may notice some things:
- The physical wall stops your body. Turns out no amount of speculation over quantum mechanics or spirtuality will break you free from the larger laws of physics. (Laws of physics being laws that affect physical things.)
- When your body hits the wall, your body doesn't stop moving all at once. For example, even though your head stops when it hits the wall, your brain continues moving inside your head, until it hits the interior of your skull, sloshes around a bit and settles. This is known as a "concussion". Some symptoms of a concussion include: loss of conciousness, loss of memory, confusion, disorientation, difficulty reasoning, slurred speech, etc.
- Notice the corrilation between your brain's wellbeing and your physical conciousness.
- If our conciousness was external to the body, one could speculate how that configuration might behave differently. A head injury would not effect our ability to remember things, nor our speed or ability to reason on information we already possess - it would just hinder control and reception to/from our physical bodies. And yet, there are cases where physical trauma to the brain can not only turn us "off" temporarly - it can erase memories, even change our behaviors and personalities.
It's amazing how badly people don't want this to be true. Keep running the experiment! All you need is a single non-zero result and you might be on to something!
- Lime
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JamesThomas
KS,
I did not say that the 90% bacteria where not critical to our survival.
We do not know that that it is a collection of synapses in the brain that accounts for consciousness. Rather, the foundations of consciousness is a major mystery to science, and only some theorize that it is a product of the brain.
I notice you didn't argue the fact that the foundational building blocks of all matter is non-material vibrating energy. Which is really the point of the whole thing.j
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King Solomon
BTS said:
I think we know next to nothing regarding consciousness. But it must be nice to have all the answers. Comforting. Kind of like being a JW and knowing everything.
Yeah, well JWs have certainty in their belief in superstitions, based on faith in a book of superstitions.
I guess that's the nice thing when you actually begin to think in scientific terms, and internalize rational thinking processes: you don't have to burden yourself down by cluttering your mind with unproven superstitions, goblins, ghosts, angels, Gods, etc. You don't have to spend time worrying about or wasting energy on fears about the unknown unknowables. You should try it sometime? It can't hurt, could it?
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still thinking
How interesting....thanks for that James I was aware that we had good and bad bacteria...and that it could get out of whack. But I had no idea that we were made up of so much.
Microbes in the human body
According to a recent National Institutes of Health (NIH) estimate, 90% of cells in the human body are bacterial, fungal, or otherwise non-human. 1 Although many have concluded that bacteria surely enjoy a commensal relationship with their human hosts, only a fraction of the human microbiota has been characterized, much less identified. The sheer number of non-human genes represented by the human microbiota – there are millions in our “extended genome” 2 compared to the nearly 23,000 in the human genome – implies we have just begun to fathom the full extent to which bacteria work to facilitate their own survival.
The NIH's ongoing initiative, the Human Microbiome Project, aspires to catalog the human microbiome, also referred to as the human metagenome. Emerging insights from environmental sampling studies have shown, for example, that in vitro based methods for culturing bacteria have drastically underrepresented the size and diversity of bacterial populations. One environmental sample of human hands found 100 times more species than had previously been detected using purely culture-based methods. Another study which also employed high throughput genomic sequencing discovered high numbers of hydrothermal vent eubacteria on prosthetic hip joints, a species once thought only to persist in the depths of the ocean.
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King Solomon
James said:
KS,
I did not say that the 90% bacteria where not critical to our survival.
No one suggested you did. I said they are: it's a well-known fact, a basic principle of medicine and microbiology, which I said in response to ST's questioning.
We do not know that that it is a collection of synapses in the brain that accounts for consciousness. Rather, the foundations of consciousness is a major mystery to science, and only some theorize that it is a product of the brain.
Sorry, but it's as well-accepted a theory of cognitive neurobiology as any other theory in science you can name, including evolution or gravity.
Having studied the biochemical basis of neurology, principles of biology/neurotransmitters, rational drug design, etc, I can assure you that science has a far greater understanding and handle of brain functionality than you give it credit (including an understanding of the chemical basis of mental disorders).
Maybe you misunderstand what the term "theory" means to a scientist; most lay-people don't....
I notice you didn't argue the fact that the foundational building blocks of all matter is non-material vibrating energy. Which is really the point of the whole thing.
Yeah, I'm not a theoretical physicist dealing in string theory, so I didn't feel I had anything to add to that element...
But since you asked, I DO know enough about it from the physics courses I took to know that energy and matter are interconvertible, so it's not really all that much of a barrier? Einstein's E=mc^2 shows that relationship....
It's amazing how badly people don't want this to be true. Keep running the experiment! All you need is a single non-zero result and you might be on to something!
That experiment reminds me of Col Alexander, the Army officer who was inspiration for "The Men Who Stare At Goats". He was convinced he could walk thru walls by aligning his molecules with the wall, and passing thru. The guy apparently didn't pay attention the the strong molecular forces that make it impossible....