Interesting discussion with some Witnesses at my door today

by jwfacts 59 Replies latest jw experiences

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    I moved to a new home about 6 months ago, so am no longer on a Do Not Call list, but have not been contacted by JW's yet. I didn't even know which territory I am in.

    This afternoon was a perfect, sunny day. I answered a knock at my door, and found an African man and his wife standing there with two lovely young boys. The littlest one was trying to put a magazine into my hand, whilst the father was parroting the title. Even though I knew what was happening, it was all so quick and overwhelming I had no idea what he was talking about. You have to wonder what a normal householder is left thinking about the situation. I am sure most have no idea even what religion the person at the door was, or what their message was.

    When he finished his pitch I asked what congregation he was in. He looked totally shocked, and wanted to know if I was a JW. I told that I used to be, but not any more. I asked again what congregation and he told me. I told him I was new to the area and did know what territory I was in, which got him quite exited. To settle him down I said that I had left the religion 7 years ago. He asked why, so I told him that I had been in Bethel, and there I had come to the realisation that Holy Spirit was not directing the organisation. I had become aware of elders being appointed whilst committing gross sin, and hence the religion is just like any other, and not actually directed by God. He responded that we are all imperfect, and did I believe that. I said I certainly do, and that all religions can use imperfection to justify the errors they make. The husband seemed not to comprehend what I meant, but the wife nodded thoughtfully.

    He then asked if I believed the Bible. I said "I do not believe the Bible is the infallible word of God". He responded, "oh, so you do not believe in God!" I told "That is not what I said, I did not say anything about my belief in God, but that I do not believe the Bible in inspired by God. It is like any holy book, written by men." He asked why I didn't believe it. I asked if he had researched the formation of the Bible Canon. He is asking if I believe the Bible, yet Catholics, Protestants and Egyptian Coptics all believe the Bible to be composed of different books. So exactly which Bible Canon does he expect me to be the correct one? He had no idea what I was talking about and said that other religions have wrong interpretations of the Bible. I tried to explain that was not what I was discussing, but he had never heard that different Bibles had different books and just couldn't follow my line of reasoning.

    He then asked what I believed would happen to the earth. I said that sometime within the next few billion years the sun will become a red giant and destroy the earth. He said "you are kidding, the sun is going to last forever." I explained the sun is like a fire, except instead of wood being consumed, the heat comes from hydrogen turning to helium, and eventually it will burn out. The wife again nodded thoughtfully, but the husband looked dumbfounded. He said that couldn't happen because God said the earth will last forever. I said the Watchtower explains God will need to refuel the sun, to which he said the Watchtower says no such thing. I said there are a couple of poetic Scriptures that say the earth will last forever, as well as others that say the world will end, such as Isaiah that says the earth is like a garment that will wear out. He told me the Bible does not say that. I said I will happily get a Bible and show him. He responded that he cannot believe I was in Bethel as i would not be saying such things. I said, "I find that insulting. You come to my door, keep contradicting what I say when I am willing to back it up and now question my integrity." He backed down, no no no I don't mean to insult you. So I continued, the Bible says both that the earth will remain forever, and that it will end. So each religions leader choose which Scripture to accept and which to ignore as figurative, and that is why there is over 30,000 Christian sects. Again the wife looked like she agreed, whilst he tried to say how they were right or something to that line.

    At this point the young boy (maybe 6) starting crying about having a toothache. I asked if they wanted a drink, and brought out some drinks. They were very grateful. They then went to take their leave. The husband then said that God is forgiving and that if I ever chose to return he would take me back with open arms.

    I actually felt sorry for them. How can you want to try to take away such happy delusion. The couple were very well spoken and came across as intelligent, and I imagine he was an elder. Yet here is a man that had little comprehension of religion, or anything I said, yet shrugs it off and still makes out like I am wrong but not to worry as God will take me back, provided I return to his religion.

    So I ended that as much as I think many JWs are very nice people, I cannot go back to a God that wants to kill everyone but those in just one religion. Religion is a product of birth. There are no JWs in Afghanistan, and if I was born there I would be Muslim simply by an accident of birth. I cannot accept that God will kill those people. People belong to a religion due to birth and in every religion there are people that genuinely want to please God. Once more the wife nodded. I then told them that the lady next door is African and wished them all the best for the rest of the day. He once against apologised about insulting me and thanked me for the drinks.

    I was glad that I kept really relaxed during the conversation, as in the past I would get very emotional. I think on leaving they will realise that I am an apostate, but they did not comprehend it during the discussion, as I did not quite fit the fire breathing, convention picketer that are trained to be wary of.

  • cult classic
    cult classic

    That was a good read, Paul. A basic course on logic would serve most JWs well.

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    I'm sure we can all remember having experiences like that at the door, going home after a long morning in field service defeated but pretending like it was uplifting. It became so exhausting to keep putting a positive spin on it all.

  • MC RubberMallet
    MC RubberMallet

    I needed to read that. Remaining calm yet logical is not within me yet. I still get emotional.

    Why do you think the wife kept nodding? Because she agreed with you or just an acknowledgement to help you become more receptive?

  • NVR2L8
    NVR2L8

    A lesson in the art of reasoning JWFacts!

    I met someone like you years ago, but he was not an ex-JW. Still he and his wife knew how to use their Bible better than any JW I knew. Their reasoning was straight from the scriptures and not from a religious publication. He challenged me to prove any of my belief without a WT publication as he did. One example was about the First and the Last in Revelation...applying to both Jehovah and to Jesus Christ to prove that they are equal in being GOD as my dad and I are equal being MAN. The WT teaches that Jesus is the "first and the last" to be created directly by God since all other things were created through him. The man asked me to prove this using the Bible only. I told him I would do research in our publications but he said he would only accept discussing from the Bible. I told him I would be back - but he rightly predicted that I wouldn't. I couldn't answer any of his questions without the WT. I spoke to an elder and he told me he knew that man and said he was an opostate. Years later when I started waking up and researching the "truth", this call came back into my mind and I plan at one point to return and thank him for starting the alarm bell ring in my mind. Hopefully the witnesses that came to your door will one day remember you as I remembered him.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    The wife seemed to be acknowledging that the points I said were interesting, though I couldn't tell if she agreed with me. Maybe she is sitting on the fence a bit, but may be she was just being polite.

    In the past I have thought of all these great things I would say to help someone see they were in a cult. But looking at a sweet family spending time together, I just could not project my anger at the religion onto them. It felt like it would be mean to try to take away what they believe in. I feel that the conversation may not have led anywhere, other than to show them that people can leave for reasons of conscience. My hope is that if someone is part of the religion, at least they can come to see the dogmatic attitude that they alone have Truth is illogical.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Great conversation. Thanks for sharing.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Well done Paul, its sad to see how ill-informed JWs are - even the elders.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    A conversation with a JW..

    Is like Talking to a..

    Fence Post..

    ............................ ...OUTLAW

  • watson
    watson

    Well done.

    Paul, I think the wife was just being dutiful and respecting her husband's space, allowing him to take the lead.

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