JWN did not appeal to me at first!

MC RubberMallet

When realizing something was wrong with the org, I searched online of course. This was the first site I came across. The reason why it didn't appeal to me was because it was mostly personal experiences. I like clear, verifiable, simple facts. As a devout JW, even if having doubts, certain phrases will not penetrate the cult mentality.

Phrases used frequently on here I was able to refute:

1) JW's did not let me do things I wanted to do. (GB is right, apostates ARE selfish. If we want to please God, we have to give up our selfish desires and put God's will first)

2) GB is wrong about the blood issue. (Bible says clearly "abstain from blood")

3) Speaking of disfellowshipping "JW's would rather choose loyalty to a group of men in BK than their family." (No, we would rather choose loyalty to Jehovah, than to anyone else. It hurts to not acknowledge a human being that a few moments before the announcement, we were close with. Those men in BK are only promoting what the Bible says)

4) False prophecies (I never used light getting brighter crap. I used Acts 18:24-26. Now a certain Jew named A·pol′los, a native of Alexandria, an eloquent man, arrived in Eph′e·sus; and he was well versed in the Scriptures. This [man] had been orally instructed in the way of Jehovah and, as he was aglow with the spirit, he went speaking and teaching with correctness the things about Jesus, but being acquainted with only the baptism of John. And this [man] started to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Pris·cil′la and Aq′ui·la heard him, they took him into their company and expounded the way of God more correctly to him. I reasoned sometimes even in Bible people with limited knowledge made mistakes based on that knowledge, but God blessed their efforts, and that's what he did with JW org progressively).

The beginning of the certain end was jwfacts.com and Crisis of Conscience. Those were facts I needed.

I eventually came to appreciate certain aspects of this site, though.

Now I want to do cult counseling. LOL.

King Solomon

Interesting post....

Everybody responds to a different kernel of truth that gets them to accept TTATT, i.e. there is no "one size fits all" magic bullet that is absolutely going to work for everyone. Just like there is no ONE single presentation that gets anyone interested in the "Truth". That's where salesmanship is required, reading the emotional response of the person to tell what is seemingly being received (and that is completely missing on the internet).

About these:

2) GB is wrong about the blood issue. (Bible says clearly "abstain from blood")

Of course, the Bible also considers sex with a menstruating woman to be a "felony" offense, on par with sins such as eating blood (considered a form of idolatry), idolatry, and murder, i.e. serious crimes against the Land of Israel which cannot be attoned via simple ritualistic cleansing. I love how they downplay the "sin" of the former example (WT makes it a 'conscience matter'), but NOT the latter examples? Why? They are no doubt seeing the foolishness of applying ancient Jewish standards to modern life.

BTW, some of the ancient tribes living in the Amazon STILL believe that menstrual blood is toxic, and don't allow contact with women during their periods (let alone allow sex during a period!).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanomami#Female_puberty_and_menstruation

People feel superior to those backwards stone-age tribes in the Rain Forests, with their primitive beliefs, and then open their Bible to worship an ancient Stone Age God who endorses some of those same primitive beliefs!

3) Speaking of disfellowshipping "JW's would rather choose loyalty to a group of men in BK than their family." (No, we would rather choose loyalty to Jehovah, than to anyone else. It hurts to not acknowledge a human being that a few moments before the announcement, we were close with. Those men in BK are only promoting what the Bible says)

Just above I said, "They are no doubt seeing the foolishness of applying ancient Jewish standards to modern life." Cancel that. Apparently not, as shunning is certainly in keeping with OT thought: in fact, it was DEMANDED, so as to protect the community from their sins, to escape the wrath of JHWH on the entire community.

So as you see, they pick and choose which of YHWHs "sins" warrant punishment or not, and which are so antiquated to modern eyes as to warrant ignoring (eg sex with a menstruating woman).

4) False prophecies (I never used light getting brighter crap. I used Acts 18:24-26. Now a certain Jew named A·pol′los, a native of Alexandria, an eloquent man, arrived in Eph′e·sus; and he was well versed in the Scriptures. This [man] had been orally instructed in the way of Jehovah and, as he was aglow with the spirit, he went speaking and teaching with correctness the things about Jesus, but being acquainted with only the baptism of John. And this [man] started to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Pris·cil′la and Aq′ui·la heard him, they took him into their company and expounded the way of God more correctly to him. I reasoned sometimes even in Bible people with limited knowledge made mistakes based on that knowledge, but God blessed their efforts, and that's what he did with JW org progressively).

Of course, the counter-agrument to that is one as a faithful JW, YOU were "going off the reservation" by using a non-GB-approved interpretation of scripture, as the GB uses the "brighter light" rationale. Perhaps you should send the suggestion in for Acts 18:24 to do their work for them? Your rationale is more logical, and less problematic. :)

leavingwt

WT = Information Control. Members are not allowed to express opinions which differ from Mother's. Critical thinking is viewed as disloyalty.

JWN = Freedom of thought.

DaCheech

I actually love and empathize with the personal experiences I read on this site.

There was another site with recorded experiences I used to burn on disc, and listen on the way to work.

but, to each their own, and good luck

MC RubberMallet

King Solomon - I write this in case any lurkers feel the same way I did and allowing the cult mind to refute the facts of reality rather than the product of wishful thinking.

LWT - Exactly. Having a say is good for mental and emotional therapy. And a basic human right.

DaCheech - It wasn't until after I realized what the org was about that I started to appreciate the personal experiences. I felt like the crazy things I've seen and experienced were limited to my congo/area. When I realized the same problems were ALL OVER the org, it solidified the people aren't flawed, the system is.

Gayle

I agree about 'jwfacts.com' as a great starting piece. Short and sweet facts from JW own literature quotes.

Then, 'Crisis of Conscience' for more 'in depth' organizational policies and history review also.

Then, Steven Hassan's books about mind-control and cult identifications.

Finkelstein

When I realized the same problems were ALL OVER the org, it solidified the people aren't flawed, the system is.

The biggest fact to the failer of the JW organization is that they try too hard to emulate the social morals of a civilization that existed 3000 years ago.

There in itself is the biggest folly, causing regrettable and terrible occurrences to people in are/this modern age, but its

all structured around coercive fear and self imposing power by the leaders of the organization.

Add the fact that the WTS. is trying to make their organization commercially appealing through their open publishing company

and the problems pile up one on top of another. Retrospectively that might be the real core the problem of the WTS. in that they

more concerned about shaping and controlling people to be their own sales representatives for their published goods.

jgnat

Finklestein, I would characterize the WTS as a product of the end of the 19th century, rather than trying to emulate an imagined society 3,000 years ago.

What we had at the dawn of the industrial age is the concept of industrialization, mass production, standardization, and "scientific" discovery. Right around New England all sorts of religious sects were birthed, all attempting to "scientifically" shove the bible in to some sort of cohesive code book for living. The prophecies were re-interpreted, with confident predictions of Jesus' return (right down to the day and the hour!). There was an attempt to re-birth an imagined early church, with no knowledge of the context that the books were written in.

The "genius" of the WTS, if we can call it that, is the iron-clad corporate structure that lives on beyond the lifespan of its creators, practically indestructible and self-sustaining.

So here we have a standing "spiritual army" (no accident the Salvation Army was birthed at the same time), dressed alike, believing alike, conforming and moving forward with relentless precision.

watson

Ahh, jgnat, so refreshing. Well said. Our "unbaptized apostate".

jgnat

Indubitably, Mr. Watson. Thanks for the applause. According to a frantic conspiracy theorist, I am an "imposter".

JWN did not appeal to me at first!

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