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Leadership is missing among the xJWs!
by IslandWoman 35 Replies latest jw friends
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Reborn2002
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Simon
I think it works surprisingly well BTW considering the diverse personalities involved. Different people tend to take some sort of lead at least depending on the area involved.
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Amazing
AlanF:
"I know one thing: if anyone decided to become a leader of a group of ex-JWs, or if he or she became a de facto leader because a number of people decided to follow him or her, for whatever reason, I'd run like hell the other way. I think that most of the people I've cooperated with over the years would too."
AMEN!!! Agree with your entire post 100% ... we are on the same sheet of music. Well stated. Thanks!
Simon: Yes, things actually work quite well as they are. Reminds me of the saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
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ofcmad
Yeah.. like I'm going to let any person lead me in another organization. I answer to God now. Not to any person.
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IslandWoman
Hi Amazing,
I am surprised many times by the inability of xJWs to leave the Watchtower phobia. I am able to communicate right now because there is a system set up and that system has people who manage it. Why does the idea of leadership seem so scary to xJWs who declare they have left the Tower and it's small minded thinking? Who of us is not benefited by organized systems? We get garbage pick up because of it, we get a burger at McDonalds because of it.
Organization and leadership are all around us, sure it causes problems but without it there is no civilized society and no successful efforts to fix that society. In addition, Alan's assumption of a "de facto leader" was off the mark. What would be needed is a group of men and women who were respected and willing to do the work involved. No org. to join, no common beliefs or whatever, only a common goal.
Just my thoughts.
IW -
SYN
Better communication and planning, not leadership - that is the key. Prick somebody with twenty toothpricks, and they will just get mad. Tie the 20 toothpicks together and stab them, and they will die. Same goes for us 'renegade apostates'. While I don't like the idea of an organization, we do need to devote time to ensuring we're not duplicating each other's efforts.
The earlier in the forenoon you take the sun bath, the greater will be the beneficial effect, because you get more of the ultra-violet rays, which are healing. - The Golden Age
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anewperson
Island Woman, those above are full of beans. If a group of even 3-5 good ex-JWs, even those never elders and females for example, formed a schism then some of the other numerous exJWs would join with them and it would grow although the WTS would try to insert moles and be spying breathlessly as soon as the first press releases etc got out.
It is NOT impossible to organize some but is to organize all. I recommend you get together with some friends and do it. This board is controlled by those of already existing churches who have a vested interest in no new competition. Or as an option join our informal fellowship called the Free Christians where association is by love instead of sameness in doctrines. (contact [email protected])There are also many atheists here who are militantly against any new religious group whatsoever (see some above), though there are also friendly atheists who could care less one way or another.
If you do organize by getting national press coverage at a news conference and by sending release to papers etc, then I recommend that you organize independent but cooperative house-churches. Everytime an organization is set up as a top-down hierarchy (Catholic Church, WTS etc) making decisions over the rest instead of where local servants are in charge but have agreed to a set of basic beliefs, then such concentration of power at the top is too much, corrupts those having it and leads to tyranny of those at the bottom. In the arrangement used by most churches that are Protestant, all are equals except that they are headed by Christ. Read Mt 23:10.
Now that's worked over 400 years for most of those and many believe this was the arrangement the earliest Christians enjoyed, much more family-like, more a Way of Life in God than an imperfect human organization. The True Organization remains in heaven though on earth there is an arrangment for orderliness with kindness. Do you see?
So ignore all the negatives of those who run this board (and no I don't just mean Simon) and push ahead. If you fail then others will try until there is success. However, again, our Free Christians group needs your consideration. We do have it set up already as I've described though it is relatively informal. About 900 people get 2-3 emailed newsletter every few days and those include a weekly Bible reading for associating individuals and groups earthwide. Some of those in turn share what they get.
Let there be not one but many new fellowships. Want one of your own to be able to affect more good, then get busy. Don't be asking permission for it from those who will alway nay-say it. Just do it, Island. Understand?
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QUEENIE
MY daughter said the same thing sorta this morning INTERNATIONAL support group -- in our area it is only us--self help as it is and sometimes it would be nice to get together and celebrate a holiday or two that is if we do not blow away with this wind before it happens !!!!! lova ya all ((((hugs))))
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AlanF
IW, there's a world of difference between leadership in business, politics and so forth, and leadership in the religious/anti-religious arena. Everyone knows from square one that the former are just people who make no claims to being supernaturally guided. Religious leaders usually make direct or indirect claims to have supernatural guidance, and those who subscribe to such religions buy into these claims. Those who leave generally want nothing more to do with people who claim such guidance, and so they tend to be exquisitely sensitive to anything that smacks of such claims. And of course, in the world of JWs everyone is either part of God's organization or Satan's -- there ain't no in-between in the JW mind. Most critics who want to influence JWs want very much to demonstrate that they're not part of any such imaginary organization, and one of the best ways to do that is not to be part of any anti-religious organization at all. That way, any perception on the part of a JW that critics are part of some organization is demonstrably nothing more than a product of his imagination.
When I spoke of a de facto leader, it goes without saying that this could be one person or a group, just as the JWs are led by a group. Any actual organization must have some sort of a leader or leadership group that determines organizational goals and policies -- otherwise it would just be the sort of loose collection of more or less cooperative people that exists now among JW critics. Thus my "assumption of a de facto leader" is necessary for an organization to exist.
The fact that an organization of JW critics is impractical is proved by the various critical websites and other online 'groups' that have come and gone. On Simon's board here, there is a good deal of fighting about trivial issues. Many who are trivial thinkers and otherwise ineffective in accomplishing anything of value against the Watchtower Society have proved to be resentful of those who do accomplish things. Who of these people would you leave out of an organization that you can envision? Would you want to make such decisions and thereby become a leader? Leaders have to make such decisions, and take the flak that comes with it. No one I know wants that kind of responsibility or headaches. And it's obvious that to organize in such a manner would be to create a monster not very different from the one in Brooklyn, no?
Let's put it to you directly: how would you choose a set of leaders? Would you follow them unconditionally? If not, then you'd leave the organization, right? And where would the organization be then? Especially if everyone did the same? And if you think an effective organization can get along without a set of leaders who determine policies, then how would you deal with the inevitable disagreements in a democratic organization? Split into several organizations? Let me be even more specific: can you think of a single person that you would follow and become part of his or her organization?
There are a few critical organizations out there that are effective to various degrees in dealing with the Watchtower. Every one I know of is run by one man or a small group of people who everyone else obeys. If they won't obey, they leave.
Businesses and political groups are necessarily dictatorial for reasons I've described. Thus they're fundamentally different from the loose sort of organization you've described.
No, non-dictatorial organizations of critics simply don't work. And I wouldn't want to be part of a dictatorial one. I don't think you would either. As one poster said, what the community of critics has going is very effective, and if it ain't broke don't fix it.
You said at the end of your post, "What would be needed is a group of men and women who were respected and willing to do the work involved. No org. to join, no common beliefs or whatever, only a common goal." This already exists in several forms. The neat thing about these is that the respect exists mutually among those who have temporarily come together. They come together by observing what the others do and by extending an invitation to join forces for awhile. In other words, by becoming an effective individual, a person earns the respect of others, and others want to join with them for further effective action. Naturally, the people who do this understand the need to keep their mouths shut. Loose lips sink ships and all that. Those who can't keep their mouths shut lose all respect and are never again trusted with confidential information, nor will effective individuals ever join with them again. Over the years these loose collections of doers come and go. None of them want to be part of any anti organization.
AlanF
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AGuest
Dearest IslandWoman, may you have peace...
And may I say that you are only PARTLY correct - some of us have a leader:
Matthew 23:10
Again, I bid you peace!
A slave of Christ,
SJ