All I know is all good dogs and kitties go to heaven.
Revelation 19:1 omitted from NWT index?
by DATA-DOG 19 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Witness My Fury
Paul entered the third heaven "apparently" but never said if he went thru heavens 1 and 2 on the way to the 3rd, or if the 3rd heaven was tiered below heavens 2 and 1 and so he never went thru them. So who know if 3 is better than 1 or the other way around. If it was so good, why come back?
Oh well at least you believers now can be safe in the knowledge that there is more than one heaven... and it is where "paradise" is.
(2 Corinthians 12:1-7) . . .I have to boast. It is not beneficial; but I shall pass on to supernatural visions and revelations of [the] Lord. 2 I know a man in union with Christ who, fourteen years ago-whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know; God knows-was caught away as such to the third heaven. 3 Yes, I know such a man-whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know, God knows- 4 that he was caught away into paradise and heard unutterable words which it is not lawful for a man to speak. 5 Over such a man I will boast, but I will not boast over myself, except as respects [my] weaknesses. 6 For if I ever do want to boast, I shall not be unreasonable, for I shall say the truth. But I abstain, in order that no one should put to my credit more than what he sees I am or he hears from me, 7 just because of the excess of the revelations.. . .
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King Solomon
Designs said:
All I know is all good dogs and kitties go to heaven.
Would that include all the Dobermanns that obediently worked for their Nazi dog handlers, biting Jewish and JW prisoners in concentration camps? Are they going to Heaven?
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DATA-DOG
Thanks everyone. @ Blondi, thank you for that info. I had been searching articles and just went right past the reasoning book. I guess that the official stand at this point is Revelation 19:1 is not the same great crowd in other verses. The CD-library is a maze of information, a forrest of mirrors. I had to stop looking because I was getting a headache.
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Jeffro
The Searcher:
The Bible truth is, ...
A good rule of thumb is that if someone starts of with a claim about the Bible 'truth' about something that is entirely subject to interpretation, what follows probably isn't worth reading.
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maccauk11
whats interesting to consider is where he heard the great crowd roar .It was in heaven.
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Amelia Ashton
In Space no-one can hear you scream! So they wouldn't hear great crowds roaring, trumpets or water and not singing or praising either.
Back when Revelation was written John would not have known about the lack of sound up there but surely any-one actually living up there would have known and corrected him.
So much fun to be had in Revelation.
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prologos
searchers: that is a very important point again. that the OS are the non-jewish Christians, and that the term "Great Crowd of OS" is wrong. thats where wt went wrong.
In this confusion about heaven or earth standing of the Great Crowd of Rev. 7, can anybody adress the meaning of verses 15-17 that seem to resonate with Rev 21:3,4 with the tent (protection) of god spread over them, God with mankind etc? If you are in heaven you would not have to be sheltered from adversity?
thank you.
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prologos
my take, speculation is that the Great Crowd in Rev.7 is the same as the 12 tribes of Rev 7:1-8, OUT of which the 12x12 000 are sealed.
But they are a CROWD, because coming OUT of the Great tribulation, the place is in mess, disorganized.
the order of events is: those that are bought FROM among mankind are sealed to be firstfruits and go where jesus went, then the 4 winds strike and the 12 tribes , now minus the 144 000 come out of the GT as a crowd rather then classed by the angels into 12 divisions. Thw 12 tribes come up again later when each have to find their respective gates in the New Jerusalem to get at the trees of life inside the city.
Way back in the late 50s there was a series of articles in the wt explaining that the 12 tribes were spiritual and had specific characteristics each. The 12 tribes were understood to be earthly. figure.
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PSacramento
In Revelation 1: 4 we have the seven spirits that are before His throne:
John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who [fn]is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,
The greek word for "before" is enopion, which means:
In precense of or before ( location).
IN Revelation 7:9
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
The greek word for "before" the throne is: enopion.
The writer of Revelation makes it clear that, in both cases, the seven spirits and the great crowd are before the throne of God.
So, BOTH are in Heaven at that time because that is where the throne of God ( and the Lamb) are.