Restrictions On JW Members: What Are They??

by Cold Steel 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  NewChapter

  Eustace, unbaptized publishers and those on the TMS live by the same requirements. The difference is that if they mess up, they are not DF'd or shunned (officially) but and announcement goes out simply saying they are no longer publishers.

  I think they used to announce that the person was no longer 'approved', but they changed that when they decided that you are only approved when baptized. It was something I read in old literature, so I wasn't around for that, but someone else may be able to supply the details better. But the first paragraph I wrote is how it was when I was 'in'.

  In fact, as I recall, rather than shunning the unbaptized person who is removed, they do the opposite. They faun all over them hoping to encourage them and get them back on the path toward baptism, where they will be locked in and it will finally be okay to just shun them.
• 

  tornapart

  The thing that tears you apart is realising that you have been controlled your whole life! That you have believed your whole life that you have the truth and no one else does and realising that it is a fallacy. I'd always had some doubts, many JWs do, but they are always put to one side. The thinking is 'Jehovah will sort it at the right time', the 'light will grow brighter', 'wait on Jehovah'. I always believed as do most JWs that the 'Faithful and Discreet Slave' was being directed by God (even though not inspired of God like the bible writers and even though still imperfect men). The idea is that if the guidance comes from God then you don't question it.

  For me the doubts became more and more until one day I stumbled across Ray Franz book 'Crises of Conscience'. I read it out of curiosity at first. What JW doesn't have some curiosity about what goes on behind closed doors in Brooklyn? When I started to read it I still believed it was 'God's Organisation'... by the time I finished it I felt as Dorothy must have felt in the 'Wizard of Oz' when after all her struggles she found out that the Mighty Wizard of Oz was just a little trembling old man behind a curtain. I was left shaken, as many others have too. After that you can see through everything but at the same time you feel trapped because there is no easy way out. You either stay and pretend and try and fade as best you can or you leave and risk losing everything. I'm talking 50+ years of everything here. Those who have gone down this route will testify to how painful this is. You gain your personal freedom at great cost. I am still very much a christian, in fact more so now than as a JW as I accept Christ as my personal mediator.

  As for 'laying on of hands', the WTs believe that this came to and end when the apostles died. So this is not done at all. It is deemed as having something to do with the 'demons'. There is no ceremony at all. The person to be made an elder will be approached before the meeting, asked if he will accept becoming an elder and if he does it is announced that he has been appointed. That's it.
• 

  blondie

  The WTS teaches that all other Christian religions are part of "Christendom" and that because in the WTS opinion they do not teach what is in the bible, they are apostate.

  Whereas Islam was never a Christian religion, so are not labeled "apostate" though in the WTS opinion their teachings are flawed, false, etc.

  The WTS considered Solomon apostate when he died but says he will be resurrected.

  http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/quotes/apostates.php

  Here is the WTS explanation of why Solomon is to be resurrected.

  *** w65 8/15 p. 511 Questions From Readers ***

  Considering what is said at 1 Chronicles 28:9, how can it be said that Solomon will be resurrected?—B.M., U.S.A.

  In order to determine what the Bible indicates about the possibility of a resurrection for Solomon, it is helpful to compare what is said about him with what the Scriptures say happened at death to certain other men who lived before Christ.

  Abraham, Moses and David pleased Jehovah. Consequently, they were listed as men of faith who believed in and will receive a resurrection. (Heb. 11:17-19, 23-28, 32-35, 39, 40) This means that at death they went to Sheol or Ha´des, the common earthly grave of mankind, since it is from there that the dead are resurrected. (Rev. 20:13) We have no reason to doubt Jehovah’s determination in their regard. Interestingly, the Bible used similar expressions in explaining what happened to all these men when they died. Abraham, upon his death, went "to [his] forefathers in peace." (Gen. 15:15) At death Moses ‘lay down with his forefathers.’ (Deut. 31:16) And David is spoken of as being "with his forefathers and . . . buried in the city of David."—1 Ki. 2:10; Acts 13:36.

  So all three men, Abraham, Moses and David, pleased God, went to Sheol, and are mentioned as being buried with or gathered to their forefathers. The use of the similar expression ‘buried with his forefathers’ could not mean that they all shared the same grave, since these men were not buried at the same place. In fact, Jehovah buried Moses, and "nobody has come to know his grave down to this day."—Deut. 34:5, 6.

  Jehovah also included in the inspired record the statement that at death Solomon "lay down [slept, AV,AS,RS] with his forefathers." (1 Ki. 11:43; 2 Chron. 9:31) So, using the Bible’s parallelism, we can reasonably conclude that Solomon, along with his forefathers Abraham, Moses and David, is in Sheol or Ha´des, from which he will be resurrected. Although some may feel that, in view of Solomon’s great wisdom, he was fully accountable when he turned to false worship, all the factors are known by Jehovah, a God of perfect justice and mercy, and this seems to be his decision on the matter.

  Before David died he had admonished Solomon: "If you search for [Jehovah], he will let himself be found by you; but if you leave him, he will cast you off forever." (1 Chron. 28:9) In view of what has already been established, what can we conclude that David here meant? It appears that David had reference to this present life and did not have in mind the matter of whether Solomon would have a resurrection or not if he fell away from true worship. If Solomon, as king of Israel, left Jehovah, God would reject him or cast him off. That is what happened. (1 Ki. 11:9-13) Nonetheless, the Scriptures indicate that Solomon apparently will receive a resurrection.—John 5:28, 29; Matt. 6:29; 12:42; Acts 7:47.

  Of course, the Bible does not make a definite statement on the resurrection possibilities of each and every person it names. But if we individually prove our own integrity to God now, it will be our privilege to be on hand when the resurrection occurs or to be among those raised from the dead. Then we will know definitely which individuals have been favored by God with a resurrection.

  ***w05 7/15 p.31 Questions From Readers***

  Since KingSolomon of ancient Israel in his old age turned unfaithful to God, can we conclude that he will not be resurrected?—

  1 Kings11:3-9. While the Bible lists by name some men and women of faith who will no doubt be resurrected, it does not specifically comment on the resurrection prospects of every single individual it names. (Hebrews 11:1-40) In the case of Solomon, however, we can get an idea of God’s judgment by comparing what happened to him at death with what happened to certain faithful ones when they died.

  The Scriptures speak of only two possibilities for the dead—the temporary state of nonexistence and the state of eternal death. Those who are judged unworthy of a resurrection are pitched into "Gehenna," or "the lake of fire." (Matthew 5:22; Mark 9:47, 48; Revelation 20:14) Among these would be the first human pair, Adam and Eve, the betrayer Judas Iscariot, and certain ones who died when God executed judgment upon them, such as the people in Noah’s day and the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah. At death, those who will be favored with a resurrection go to the common grave of mankind—Sheol, or Hades. Speaking of their future, the Bible states: "The sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Hades gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds."—Revelation 20:13.

  The faithful ones referred to in Hebrews chapter 11, then, are in Sheol, or Hades, awaiting the resurrection. Among these are God’s loyal servants Abraham, Moses, and David. Now consider how the Bible speaks of them with regard to their dying. "As for you," Jehovah told Abraham, "you will go to your forefathers in peace; you will be buried at a good old age." (Genesis 15:15) Jehovah said to Moses: "Look! You are lying down with your forefathers." (Deuteronomy 31:16) Concerning Solomon’s father, David, the Bible says: "David lay down with his forefathers and was buried in the City of David." (1 Kings 2:10) Thus, the expression ‘lying down with one’s forefathers’ is another way of saying that the person went to Sheol.

  What happened to Solomon when he died? The Bible answers: "The days that Solomon had reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel were forty years. Then Solomon lay down with his forefathers, and was buried in the City of David his father." (1 Kings 11:42, 43) Hence, it seems reasonable to conclude that Solomon is in Sheol, or Hades, from which he will be resurrected.

  This conclusion implies that the possibility of being resurrected is open to others concerning whom the Scriptures specifically say, ‘they lay down with their forefathers.’ In fact, many of the kings who succeeded Solomon, though unfaithful, are spoken of in this way. This is not inconceivable, since "there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15) Of course, only after "all those in the memorial tombs" are raised will we know for a certainty who has been favored with a resurrection. (John 5:28, 29) So rather than be dogmatic about the resurrection of any particular individual of old, we wait, trusting in Jehovah’s perfect decision.

  [Footnote]

  See pages 30-1 of the June 1, 1988, issue of The Watchtower.
• 

  blondie

  Actually, the WTS publications refer to Solomon being apostate several times.

  (it-1, Insight Book Volume 1, it-2, Insight Book Volume 2)

  *** it-1 94 Ammonites ***
  
  King Solomon had Ammonite women, including the mother of Rehoboam, among his foreign wives. (1Ki 11:1; 14:31) This, however, contributed to Solomon’s apostasy and his setting up of "high places" for the worship of Milcom and other gods, these places being finally ruined by faithful King Josiah

  *** it-1 856 Foreknowledge, Foreordination ***
  
  However, though favored in this way and even privileged to write certain books of the Holy Scriptures, Solomon nevertheless fell into apostasy in his later years.

  *** it-1 947 Divided Kingdom ***
  
  JUST 120 years after Saul became the first king of Israel, the nation was torn in two. Why? Because of the apostasy of King Solomon. Desiring to please his foreign wives, Solomon allowed rank idolatry to infiltrate the nation, building ‘high places’ to false gods.

  *** it-1 1108 High Places ***
  
  King Rehoboam followed the apostasy of his father Solomon, and his subjects continued building high places and practicing licentious rites.

  *** it-2 126 Judah ***
  
  On account of Solomon’s apostatizing toward the close of his reign, Jehovah ripped ten tribes away from the next Judean king, Rehoboam, and gave these to Jeroboam.

  *** w87 7/15 19 Prayers Require Works ***
  
  When King Solomon prayed for wisdom and God miraculously answered his prayer, did the principle that prayers require works also apply? Yes, it did, for as king of Israel, Solomon was required to write his own copy of the Law, read in it daily, and apply it to his life. But when Solomon went contrary to its instructions, as by multiplying wives and horses, his works were no longer in harmony with his prayers. As a result, Solomon became an apostate and died as such a "senseless one."

  *** w70 8/1 474 Things Foreknown by God ***
  
  However, though favored in this way and even privileged to write certain books of the Holy Scriptures, Solomon nevertheless fell into apostasy in his later years
• 

  jgnat

  Keep in mind I am an "outsider", a non-Witness married to one. He is usually in some sort of unapproved state, so I have a pretty good idea how they treat people at the bottom of the barrel. As others have mentioned, those who are not approved are not considered for promotion to more senior duties. My hubby does the happy dance when he makes the "association list", that is a phone list of active publishers. A teeny tiny slip of approval.

  CS: Tell me, if I just walked in off the street, what sort of reception would I receive?

  You would be warmly greeted by at least three people. They will want to know where you have come from (fishing if you are a Witness), and if the conversation progresses far enough, your phone number (for a book study) and what your religious background is (for ammunition). I get away with a lot because I blend in. Often I'll get a lot of Kingdom Hall gossip before they clue in I'm not a Witness.

  The service is more like a business meeting. Punctual. Very bland. Stupefying, really. I encourage outsiders to attend. There are no demons, I assure you. Attending a service rubs off a lot of the mystique.

  Eustace: What about restrictions for unbaptized publishers? What about restrictions for the "Theocratic Ministry School"[TMS] thing they have at night? Are they the same as for baptized members?

  It's not restrictions rather but responsibilities. Members of the TMS get lessons on public speaking, diction, and presentation. They are assigned speaking parts and their first public appearance is roundly applauded. My hubby's first speaking part was reading verses selected from the bible. Women, by the way, never speak directly to the audience but prepare little vignettes where they approach a "householder" with a particular question. Miraculously, during these little presentations, the "householder" always responds positively.

  Eustace: It seems like baptism is the big thing potential Jehovah's Witnesses are afraid of...Is that because the restrictions are tighter?

  Once baptized, a Witness can also be disfellowshipped and be cut off from the congregation and their own family. A convert once baptized, is expected to enter field service, and the attention abruptly ends (no-one can count their time talking to them any more).
• 

  jgnat

  By the way, individual congregations are smaller than we are used to seeing in regular churches and there is a higher ratio of elder to congregation at the Kingdom Hall than there is clergy to congregation in a regular church. In this part of the world, often a single "Kingdom Hall" will have two halls, with up to three congregations each taking services in shifts.

  The practical reason for this, I believe, is for the elders to keep a good eye on individual members.

  There are larger Assembly Halls with mobile walls for the smaller congregational meetings, that can be opened up for their semi-annual district conventions.
• 

  Cold Steel

  Regarding Solomon, many JWs know his failings, but they still accept Ecclesiastes as an inspired book of scripture. In fact, the entire soul sleeping doctrine hinges on Ecclesiastes 9:5. Solomon destroyed his life by allowing his wives to lead him into apostasy and erecting heathen altars in the place of God's. Writing in the sunset of his life, he viewed his life as wasted and perceived that everything "under the sun" as pointless, aimless, vain. In fact, he says repeatedly that all is vanity. But why would he say that? Does anyone really believe that God wants us to come away from reading Ecclesiastes with the view that our lives are nothing but vanity? I don't think so, but it's little wonder that Solomon would have such a negative philosophy given his wasted life.

  To Solomon, not all the wisdom in the world compensates for all the tragic decisions he made in his life. That's why he wrote that " the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead." But he's not writing for God; he's writing for himself and about himself. The hearts of all men aren't evil and full of madness, but his was. Ecclesiastes is not an eschatological work, but a philosophical book! And God didn't place man on Earth without good reason and He never taught such a thing.

  The apostles referred to their bodies as tabernacles that could be removed from our spirits like a man can remove a garment. But early leaders in the JWs fixated on Ecclesiastes to show that " the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." But if taken literally, then are we really to understand that the dead have not "any more a reward"? Does that mean that the Atonement is for naught? If we can expect no more a reward after death, then we may as well hang it up now and forget the entire Gospel!

  The book Crises of Conscience by Ray Franz sounds like a great book to finish up the summer with. I've been reading about Warren Jeffs, but it might be nice to change gears a bit. Sounds like there's a reason the WTS has such strict rules about reading "apostate" literature. If most reasonable people use reason, it would constitute a real threat. As far as I know, "apostates" refers only to those who have never been baptized. As TornApart notes that the whole idea is that " the Faithful and Discreet Slave [is] being directed by God (even though not inspired of God like the Bible writers and even though still imperfect men). The idea is that if the guidance comes from God then you don't question it." This is what really raised the first serious run ins I had with the JW missionaries when I was taking their "Bible study." How can any group of men be inspired of God, but not like the Bible writers? If they are God's Organization -- "The Truth" -- shouldn't the GB receive exactly the same sort of inspiration? Isn't God the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow, the same unchangable God? And if Peter, James, and John received revelation in the form of inspiration in their day, shouldn't the same inspiration be enjoyed today by God's servants...er...slaves?

  One would think!

  Why would they be hesitant to claim the same sort of revelation? In fact, what could possibly be the difference if, indeed, it was inspiration? Maybe it's just "light" (which can be variable at best and wrong at worst). The apostles didn't speak of light in their scriptures and if the GB is convinced that they are mentioned by Jesus, why would the mode of communication be different? And how arrogant to think they are prophesied of in scriptures when they've had no heavenly communication to confirm it!

  Then to think that anyone who leaves the church is guilty of apostasy, and to create all the rules and regulations we've discussed here! It just, to me, screams FALSE PROPHET. They can't claim heavenly confirmation, so they tell people that their claim is based on the [dubious] fact that if it's not them, then by the process of elimination it has to be them or...them! Process of elimination! Slam, dunk!

  The huge problem is that nowhere in the past has the Lord ever used the process of elimination to send a prophet to the people. Instead, we're told in the scriptures that by the mouth of two or three witnesses (no pun intended) shall every word be established. Wouldn't it stand to reason that if, as Amos said, the Lord God would do nothing save He would reveal it to His servant the prophets. How many times did Jesus tell the Jews to search the scriptures, for there they would find the promises of His coming. In Ezekiel 38, the prophet records the word of the Lord to Gog, the antichrist who would seek to destroy Israel during Armageddon: " Thus saith the Lord God ; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?" Thus the Lord confirmed that the prophets saw Gog in the latter days. And in Isaiah 11, the prophet predicts that God would bring the Jews back into their ancestral lands in the last days: " And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." And that's not the only prophecy about the present gathering of Judah which, by the way, the General Body rejects!

  So where's the prophecy that prophesies of them? They have one verse in Chapter 24 of Matthew, and it's highly ambiguous. And with that verse they turn families against each other, stand in judgment over the congregations penning endless restrictions by which members are not only expected to live by, but turn in family members and friends who don't comply. That verse justified an administration in Bethel chaired by one or more executives who throw their weight around, use foul language and interpret the scriptures as they see fit with no toleration for other viewpoints. Heck, if they're wrong about one thing (like man having a spirit vice a "breath"), then they become frauds.

  False prophets. And it's no wonder they don't ordain their church officers. They have no divine authority.
• 

  konceptual99

  Hi CS. You say that apostates only refers to those who have never been baptised. H ave I misunderstood something as its a label that is most definately applied to baptised witnesses and is a disfellowshipping offence. As an active witness, if I was outed to my elders for posting on this board I would face a jc and be df'ed as an apostate if I did not submit to having my thinking "readjusted". Never mind that ive not promoted any "false" teaching, just expressed some doubts.

  In fact, Being considered an apostate is about the worst thing a witness can be labelled. You can manoeuvre your way into someone else's marriage, play the df game and be back in after a few months or you can be a convicted pedo but in good standing - no problem. Tell someone you struggle with the GB being led by holy spirit and you are out in a flash and hated with a venom.
• 

  Cold Steel

  No, sorry if I wasn't clear. An apostate is someone who leaves a religion, and I don't know if the JWs consider an unbaptized person an apostate. The Warren Jeffs group calls everyone an apostate whether they've ever been a member or not. They condemn to hell anyone who actually leaves their religion and some members fear excommunication more than anything. Catholics, too, are hard on apostates. There's another extreme group called the Army of God that also controls its members by either excommunicating them or making the penalty (after death) so horrible that it's something they fear.

  I assume you're a former member. Did you bail or were you eased out? The ancient prophets and apostles were led by the Holy Spirit. Why do you think the GB is more reluctant to claim the same inspiration? They seem to balk at claiming revelation? If they ARE led by the Holy Spirit, what way other than revelation can information conveyed between God and man?

  If someone in the GB claimed to see an angel or have an inspired dream or made a prophecy, how do you think the membership would react? Would they be excited or would they be skeptical? Ellen G. White claimed to have all three, but they weren't very substantial. Still, she electrified her followers and engaged in parlor tricks which they took as miracles.
• 

  ROTH

  Gave a listen to the you tube video, it will give you a ood insight and might/should answer your question.

  http://youtu.be/34mc5EEi9SQ