"ARAB SPRING" smells like composted pig manure now

by Nathan Natas 30 Replies latest social humour

• 

  talesin

  Well, Farkel, I have read a lot of books over the last 15 years. It's true, my focus has been on Syria, Afghanistan, and Iran (some Vietnam, too, but Indo-China, shall we say, is a whole other subject).
  
  There have been numerous countries in and out of Afghanistan, and it is one big mess.

  It's my feeling, though, from knowing Iranian and Syrian people, from reading books about both countries (by western writers), and books that are more autobiographical by writers from those countries, that the people of said countries really want democracy. They do not want Sharia law, and it is a small minority that control the power. :(

  and that is really imho, from research inspired by personal interest in where my friends came from.
• 

  talesin

  Just a little background so that viewpoint doesn't seem extreme ..

  Was it 2002 that Mahar Arar was virtually kidnapped by airline security, and Canada and the US conspired to send him to Syria where he was tortured for 2 years ... finally,

  OOPSY! He's not a terrorist!

  Why are we so 'uninvolved' in Syria now? Our good friends!

  Iran is much easier - the Shah, and America's support of him. The West's demonization of the Iranian people (*not* the Imams, but the *people*) for decades ... it's NOT Cuba, and has a much stronger group of allies, ya know? OPEC? And lest we forget, the Saudi Royal family are bosom buddies with American royalty ... just sayin' ...

  It's all very complex! Our culture is so new ...

  I feel that way anyway, with much to learn.
• 

  Glander

  So the President is sucker punched again. Getting sucker punched seems to be his modus operandi. I haven't figured out the advantages of "leading from behind".

  I guess he will be getting up off the ground with snot and blood running out his nose extend his hand and say, "hey, friend, I'm sorry if I offended you. The checks in the mail, oh, and would you mind holding it until the 15th? The Chinese should have desposited it to our account by then."
• 

  designs

  talesin- The opus on the Vietnam War- The Bright Shining Lie traces the Southeast Asian issues back to WWI, and the followup Summit at Versailles, which chopped up the world for the Western Powers as the turning point in modern history. The Mid East and Africa also became the possessions of the New Colonialists and the results are still reverberating.
• 

  RubaDub

  You just can't shine shit.

  Farkel ...

  That is quite crude.

  I think the proper term is: You can't polish a turd.

  Rub a Dub
• 

  designs

  Islam must face its own Age of Enlightenment like Chirstianity did 200 years ago. The slow progress in seeing your own Holy Book as less than infallible. Once that occurs and the scales of unquestioning believers to healthy sceptics tips in favor of the sceptics then progress from a Dark Age mentality can fully take root.
• 

  glenster

  The Arab Spring: Confounded Again... And Again
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/benjamin-r-barber/libya-embassy-attack_b_1881255.html
  
  Ally no longer? Obama weighs options in post-Arab Spring Egypt
  http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Foreign-Policy/2012/0914/Ally-no-longer-Obama-weighs-options-in-post-Arab-Spring-Egypt

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_spring
• 

  hijosdelawatch

  From an European perspective, America seems too much 'idealistic'.

  First, Bush trying to impose Democracy to countries when that system of government hadn't worked never before. Obviously, it didn't work because adoption of democracy should be the fruit of an internal evolution. If it is imposed, it won't work out. Believe me, we had the same experience here in Spain with Napoleonic invasion who brought liberal ideas to this country and as a reaction the people chose to defend the old authocratic King. Only when this country was prepared internally to make that change, it happened.

  And then, Obama supporting the overthrow of the so-called tyrants like Mubarak, Ben Ali and Gaddafi who were a wall against the rise of radical islamism. What is better those soft dictators or a islamist regime?
• 

  Pistoff

  What does the president have to do with the Arab Spring??

  I support Obama, but I never had any illusions that the Arab Spring would not give way, at least partly or for a while, to the rise of militant islam in those countries.

  It is too soon to tell if the current trouble started as a real response to an obscure video, or was orchestrated by radical elements.

  But for sure the Arab Spring created a vacuum that radical movements are good at exploiting.

  Most of the Western powers got involved in sending arms and aid to those revolting against their dictator governments.

  Why would you think anyone in government, D or R, would have any illusions that this was a possibility?

  What is revealing is that so many protesters think the video was made by or approved by the gov't.

  I wonder how much of it is wanting to believe it, can't sift information or can't access info.
• 

  designs

  Pistoff- Good points. You wonder if these countries have access to or allow international news to be broadcast. It is the children who need the education and enlightenment that comes from the international community.

  One of the things my father taught me was that children laugh the same all over the world. He was one of the first group of Navy personnel to be in Yokohama during the surrender of Japan. Starvation was everywhere and he and his buddies would steal food from the ships and take it into the city for the children. The children's laughter gave him hope.