Deep thought provoking questions about Satan's description in Ez 28

by EndofMysteries 17 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  EndofMysteries

  It's taught that Ezekiel 28 is speaking about Satan, the cherub who is covered in gems, was in the garden of Eden....

  Anyway there are a few things that stand out and so far no explanation yet.

  The whole part is Ez 28:12-19.

  It says he was full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. He is the annointed cherub 'that is covering'. What exactly does that mean, the annointed cherub that is covering?

  Also it says in the midst of fiery stones he walked about, now think of what walking about fiery stones may make the appearance of ones foot look like. (when people see angels and such descriptions in other parts of the bible notice how they were described).

  Next it says the reason unrighteousness was found in him,,,,because of the abundance of his sales goods, they filled him with violence and he began to sin.

  The next part gets interesting...."because of the INJUSTICE of your sales goods, you have PROFANED YOUR SANCTUARIES".

  What were Satan's sanctuaries that he has profaned, and what was the injustice of his sales goods?

  Is this even Satan or is this another powerful creature who became bad?
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  EndofMysteries

  O and here is one of the only scriptures I've found about an angel who is covering.......

  It doesn't actually say covering, but the quote is "the angel who has been recovering me from all calamity". This quote is in Gen 48:16, it's interesting that Abraham is calling God this angel. It may or may not be related, just an observation.
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  Bobcat

  Regarding the opening phrase of verse 14, Daniel Block (NICOT Ezekiel Vol.II, p.100) translates it:

  "You are the anointed cherub; as the guardian I had appointed you."

  Similarly, in the last phrase of v.16 he translates:

  "So I banished you from the mountain of God and destroyed you, O guardian cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."

  "Guardian" in place of "that is covering" (NWT).

  Incidentally, Block comments that "the entire panel (verses 11-19) is cast in the past tense." (p.102) Notice Block's translation of verse 16 quoted above and compare that with the NWT which renders it into a future tense. The differences and possibilities of each is over my head. Maybe Leolaia will see this and comment. (A quick check of other translations in eSword showed most, if not all, rendering in the past tense also.)

  Another interesting comparison is the last phrase of verse 12:

  NWT: "You are sealing up a pattern, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty"

  Block: "You are the signet of perfection, full of wisdom, and the ultimate beauty"

  Regarding "Signet" vs. "Sealing", a footnote in NICOT has, "I follow the versions and most scholars in repointing the MT's participle hotem, "sealing," as hotam, "seal, signet." So also NRSV, NJPS, etc."
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  Nathan Natas

  There is no "spirit realm" containing any sort of creature, god, oemon , angel or soul.

  these are the creations of a primitive human mind and not the revelation of any divinity.

  Far better to concern yourself with solving your problems and the problems of your friends and neighbors than to fret about the outcome of one of mankind's oldest soap operas.
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  EndofMysteries

  For differences in bibles, I go to interlinear to see what it said then make my own opinion which is most correct or what the message is really saying. The parts you listed in interlinear say this....

  the direct hebrew to english translation says this. (some bibles go on the greek old testament vs hebrew, but this is the hebrew)
  
  "my Lord Yahweh you one-sealing of outline full wisdom and sonsumnate of loveliness; in Eden garden fo Elohim you become every of stone precious booth like pavilion of you carnelian peridot and diamond topaz onyx and jasper spahhire carbuncle and emerald and gold work of tambourines of you and alcoves of you in you in day of to be created of you they established. you cherub of anointed of the one overshadowing and I gave you in mountain of holiness of Elohim you became in midst of stones of fire you walked"
  
  "I shall violate you from mountain of Elohim and I shall destroy you cherub of the one guarding from midst of stones of fire."
  
  Anyway again I find it odd it speaking about his santuaries. Like all the scriptures speaking about Jehovah/Yahweh's santuary/ies in the camp of Israel, etc.
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  EndofMysteries

  nathan - science can't explain how we got here. When the day comes when scientists can take mere dirt and go through a process of creating new types of vegetation, animal life, etc, then maybe I'll believe a random mixing of proper things could have happened to do that. If it can happen randomly but intelligent life can't do it non randomly, then it tells me it wasn't a random occurance.
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  kepler

  Nope. What you are talking about is a typical cherry picking operation propagating a hoax.

  Rutherford and the WT used it in the 1934 yearbook. You go to read the chapter and the illusion is shattered.

  The first line of chapter 28 is addressed to the king of Tyre.

  Although you are human and not divine, you have allowed yourself to think like God.

  Ezekiel calls prophesies the destruction of the king of Tyre, comparing him to Adam. Ezekiel was hostile to both Sidon and Tyre because of their shifting alliances with regard to Babylonia.

  Ezekiel was wrong. Either it was a truce or Tyre held. Then he started on Egypt chapter 29. That didn't work out either.
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  EndofMysteries

  The first line of chapter 28 is to a human, the leader of Type. But then in vs 12 it's to the king of Tyre and speaking about the cherub.

  The parts about Egypt in the next chapter are repeated throughout all the prophet books in many different forms. Jesus also secretly hinted and linked to that chapter as well when speaking about the last days. (actually chapter 32 still speaking about Egypt for where Jesus secretly referenced).

  In Ez 31 when speaking about Pharoh of Egypt, it says he was a tree in the garden of Eden. That entire chapter destroys the garden of eden literal story many believe.

  What is also interesting is how on a physical sense things foretold in Ezekiel did happen. It said how the literal city of Tyre would be destroyed and the sea would overcome it. It was destroyed and it's underwater now. (It was an Island with large bridges connecting it, what you see as Tyre in modern times is merely the coast of where the bridges once connected to the city)
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  Bobcat

  EndofMysteries:

  Where is the connection in the NT to Ezek 32? (You got my curiosity up)

  Take Care
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  EndofMysteries

  Bobcat -

  I hope the WT never steals this new light lol. They wouldn't understand what it means anyway though.

  Okay Jesus in speaking about the last days....

  Matt 24:28 - Whereever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together = Ez 32:4-6 - and I must abandon you on the land. Upon the surface of the field I shall hurl you. And on you I will cause all the flying creatures of the heavens to reside.

  Matt 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give it's light and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. = Ez 32:7-8 - And when you get extinquished I will cover the heavens and darken their stars. As for hte sun, with clouds I shall cover it, and the moon itself will not let it's light shine. All the luminaries of light in the heavens I shall darken them on your account, and I will put darkness upon your land, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

  Matt 24:30 And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. = Ez 32:9-10 - And I will offend the heart of many peoples when I bring the captives from you among the nations to lands that you have not known. And wat you I shall certainly cause many peoples to be awestruck, and their kings will shudder in horror at you when I brandish my sword in their faces, and they will have to tremble every moment, each one for his own soul, on the day of your downfall.