Opening the bible at random - once spoken of approvingly, now superstitious!

by cedars 45 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  LostGeneration

  Thats rich. These guys talk about not being superstitious yet they are the ones constanly harping on everything being demunized, from garage sale items to virtually every movie that comes out these days.

  And what about their heros the Israelites who used the Uma and Thurman to make the tough decisions...there's one hell of a superstition if I ever heard one.

  You have to wonder though what sort of mail are they getting there at HQ that required this to be addressed. Maybe troubled JWs are sitting down and reading in the Bible how Jesus is their mediator, or turning to the book of John and seeing they have to partake if they want to be children of God? Can't have that, the WT wants you to open up their CD-ROM first, not plain old bible reading The troops are getting fooled by the verses within.
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  blondie

  Unfortunately, the first 2 examples of letting "God" select a random scripture to answer an individual, both weren't jws right?

  The WTS also has said that God is not listening to the prayers of non-jws but then he does hear their prayers if accidentally it is in harmony with God's will as the WTS defines it. But I have known non-jws in certain religions that use this method to get direction from God. I am still wondering how God tells the GB new teachings, individually, as a group, revelation through ESP, and why they get it wrong and have to adjust it, bad connection?

  *** w03 5/1 p. 9 par. 7 Do You Ask, “Where Is Jehovah?” ***

  He lets himself be found by some who formerly showed no interest in him but who now humbly seek his direction. (Isaiah 65:1) He even hears the prayers of those who have failed to keep his law but who now humbly repent. (Psalm 32:5, 6; Acts 3:19) Yet, when the heart of a person is not submissive to God, that person’s prayers are in vain.
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  OUTLAW

  Trying to make sense of the WBT$ will make..

  Your Head Explode..

  

  ..................... ...OUTLAW
• 

  cedars

  blondie

  Unfortunately, the first 2 examples of letting "God" select a random scripture to answer an individual, both weren't jws right?

  This is true. However, in both examples the practice of opening the bible randomly was spoken of in a favorable light, with it being strongly suggested that this technique led to the person embracing the JW faith. One of the experiences was even introduced with the heading "The Bible Speaks" - so the Society can hardly say that it hasn't endorsed this practice in the past despite its more recent U-turn.

  Cedars
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  Finkelstein

  As King Solomon mentioned ...

  The feelings of superiority which JWs get from these things are what psychologists refer to as "the narcissism of small differences" (eg "we believe Jesus died on a stake; YOU Worldly people believe it was a cross, tsk-tsk....").

  This is where the preponderance of arrogance stems from JWS, they are lead to believe that they are receiving true bible interpretation

  and all other religions are false teachers, governed no less from Satan himself.

  The WTS. cherry picks what is non-sensical superstition and what is true bible teachings, an intensional operation of selectivity

  presented by an inward self supporting bias.

  Religion has always been a open game to venture into and what better place than the country that espouses the religious freedom as what is in America.

  Anyone can start their own religion if you have the means and will, look at the Scientologists, the Moonies or the JWS to use an example.
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  King Solomon

  This is true. However, in both examples the practice of opening the bible randomly was spoken of in a favorable light, with it being strongly suggested that this technique led to the person embracing the JW faith. One of the experiences was even introduced with the heading "The Bible Speaks" - so the Society can hardly say that it hasn't endorsed this practice in the past despite its more recent U-turn.

  Based on what you've presented as evidence, the WTBTS has never ENDORSED the practice: that's not what they said, so you're reading that interpretation into the text when it's just not there. It's an over-statement: no "u-turn", no "endorsing".

  What they implied is that the Holy Spirit MAY decide to pick up the ball and use the practice to direct a non-believer to the truth, but that's far cry from ENDORSING the practice. They lose nothing by discouraging the practice amongst JWs, as it is likely to lead to disappointment (purely on an odds basis), but they are quite willing to take the credit for the practice when it leads non-believers to convert, to hold up as an example of the Holy Spirit in action.

  WTBTS is simply increasing their range of available excuses (much like there's many available justifications used in the theodicy argument, which everyone can use, depending on their opinion). A broader palette to choose from actually means LESS room for charges of hypocrisy to stick, since they're creating more available bases for refuge.

  BTW, it's generally best NOT to assume the WTBTS is dumb: it's always a mistake to under-estimate the skills and capabilities of an opponent. If nothing else, we've seen that WTBTS DOES know a thing or two about people and their motives (information which they unfortunately use to their own advantage to manipulate others).
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  cedars

  KS

  BTW, it's generally best NOT to assume the WTBTS is dumb: it's always a mistake to under-estimate the skills and capabilities of an opponent.

  ...which you frequently do with your patronizing and condescending comments to other posters on numerous threads. It's the pot calling the kettle black.

  And once again, you're presupposing things - in this case, that I have any interest in the observations of someone who has tried to intimidate and character-assassinate me on another thread.

  By all means, share your opinions on any thread of mine - but if you think you can provoke me into another exchange with you after your hate-filled and sanctimonious performance on the ASL thread (by answering a response that was intended for blondie, a poster I respect), you'll be disappointed.

  That is all.

  Cedars
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  blondie

  As a jw for 45 years in various states/countries, I never saw those in authority condone this. Individual witnesses who said they did this (few in my experience) were viewed as on the fringe, immature, and bringing over beliefs from their pre-jw life. Some were even counseled not do this, because it could give place to the devil. But non-jws are given the benefit of the doubt, not yet knowing what God really requires that knowledge then brings responsibility.

  If you find an experience in the pubs that say a baptized jw did this and it was condoned by the WTS, that would be enlightening.

  I can remember jws that thought everything bad that happened to them was a result of a personal attack by Satan.

  *** w95 2/1 pp. 28-29 Whose Fault Is It? ***

  However, some believe that practically everything, good or bad, in their life is the result of intervention by God or by Satan. It is as if nothing that happened to them was a consequence of their own actions. “If God wants me to have that new car, he will see to it that I get it.”

  Such ones often live their lives recklessly, making financial and other decisions on the assumption that God will save them. If their imprudent actions result in some disaster, economic or otherwise, they blame the Devil. To do something rash without first ‘counting the cost’ and then to blame Satan for the failure, or worse yet, to expect Jehovah to intervene, would be not only presumptuous but also contrary to Scripture.—Luke 14:28, 29.
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  cedars

  blondie - I agree that there are clearly no Watchtower articles encouraging people to do this - nor would I expect to find any.

  All I have said is that the publications have previously described the practice in a favorable light, as illustrated by the sub-heading "The Bible Speaks" - which is a far cry from what is said in this latest article, and another recent article I have discovered that condemns the practice.

  Cedars
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  blondie

  A very typical approach by the WTS. The one that comes to me is the lack of mention about the 7,000 creative day since 1989 and slipping in the phrase "thousands of years." At one book study, the conductor had come in after 1975 by some years but one brother was older and had lived through the constant use of the 7,000 year belief. Somehow the older brother had not noticed the disappearance of 7,000 years in the publications and answered a question using that info. The conductor quickly corrected him as being totally wrong, this young man had never heard about the 7,000 year creative day. Many jws today have no understanding of 1975 or the 1914 generation both of which are no longer mentioned. And unless newer jws have time to study the Proclaimers book or older pubs on their own, they don't have a clue.

  I have noticed the WTS softening or omitting mention of certain ideas. One of my first experiences was reading in 1993 in a WT study article that the WTS had consistently taught that Jesus' presence began in 1914. That same year I read in the Proclaimers book that it was taught for some time that it began in 1874 which is why the title of the 1879 WT was "the herald of Christ's presence" that by 1879 it had already begun.

  I do believe that most jws can't remember what was in last week's study article, let alone anything farther back. The WTS exploits that lack of memory.

  That's why I truly believe that some jws might be helped if they saw it in writing. I did finally. But the cognizant dissonance that prevails is strong.