IF cornered, what 2 or 3 examples of error in JW teaching would you point out?

by undercover 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • tornapart
    tornapart

    1) Truth NEVER changes.

    2) The Great Crowd only exists in heaven... Rev 7:9 says the GC were standing before the throne (in JW land this is the earth), however verse 11 tells us that the angels, elders and 4 living creatures fell on their faces before the throne.. so either they are all on earth with the GC or the GC are with them in heaven. Rev 19:1 tells us the GC are in heaven. This means all christians go to heaven and Jesus Christ is mediator for all and not a select few.

    3) Jesus couldn't have begun ruling in 1914 because he said the 'generation' would not pass away. An overlapping generation makes no sense whatsoever, it's just stretching things to fit.

  • jookbeard
    jookbeard

    another one is the claim that 144,000 is a literal number yet the 12 tribes of Israel where it derives from is figurative! WTF!

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    The lack of love and their failure to love their fallen brother (i.e. shunning).

    When cornered, I give out a sound byte only. It is all they are going to hear, and I want it to be memorable.

    If they try and defend shunning on biblical grounds, I would point out that the law that trumps all others is the law of love. Fail on that and you are a big fail.

  • Theocratic Sedition
    Theocratic Sedition

    A handful of things come to mind if I was cornered. I've already used a few and watched some family members squirm.

    I'd say, "the faithful & discreet slave" being something prophetic as opposed to being simply a parable for illustrative purposes. I don't think you'll find one JW capable of making a reasonable argument that it's prophetic and the WT is the only logical conclusive group that it exclusively applies to. Their own literature on the subject, such as the Insight Book, doesn't even make a solid case. It briefly touches on what other faiths believe it to mean, but doesn't bother to make a sound argument against what those other belief systems present. Another facet of the WT's view on the parable in question is their constant reminder to JWs in the literature that what they're reading is from the faithful & discreet slave and that we should be submissive and yielding to their word. Meanwhile they'll also remind you occasionally that they're not infallible, yet through the COs and Elder bodies, anyone who questions their word will find out otherwise.

    Another one that bugs me is the assertion that only active JWs will survive the Great Tribulation leading into Armageddon. That flies in the face of Scriptures such as Matt 7:1, and even more so in the face of Mark 9:38-40 which is barely ever mentioned in any of their literature. It wouldn't surprise me if they omit those verses in Mark entirely somewhere in the near future or edit them so that the brevity and weight of those words are lost on the average JW.

    Field Service being mandatory for everybody is something that bugs me as of late too, mainly because I hate doing it anymore. Eph 4:11 speaks about the Lord giving to His flock different roles for different indivuals that would benefit the congregation as a whole. He specifically stated that some would be prophets, some evangelists, some teachers, etc.. It didn't say everyone would be an evangelist, so why the peer pressure upon people aren't either naturally inclined to preach, or don't have the ability to do such? To illustrate the lunacy of it all, why can't all be prophets since all have to be evangelizers?

    Aother thing that bugs me, and bugs more than a few JWs I know personally who will express the same sentiments behind closed doors, is the stance towards higher education. The WT's stance on this is not Scriptural, but then again something not being in the Scriptures hasn't ever stopped them before. They take the thoughts expressed in the Bible about not being part of the world, or not using the world to the full, and verses condemning greed as being applicable towards anyone going to college. I don't anyone who went to college because "they wanted to make a lot of money."

    The last thing that bothers me is the blood doctrine. We're reminded occasionally that we're not under the Mosaic Law, although the basic principles found within it are set in stone. So the mention of abstaining from blood in Acts serves as an extention to what's in Leveticus. My thing is, if everything is so black and white in WT land, why can't they be consistent on blood in regards to blood fractions? Under the Mosaic Law, the blood was to be DISCARDED ENTIRELY. There was no room for processing the blood into fractions for further use even if they had the ability to do such a thing back then. So in Acts, Paul brings it up that these new Gentile Christians are supposed to abstain from blood which is an extention of what was found in the Law. Paul didn't say to break the blood down into fractions and then it's acceptable. No, he said to abstain from blood, and in order to figure out what he meant according to the WT, one has to go back to what's found within Leveticus. The WT knows they F'd up big time with their blood doctrine, but they're screwed royally because it's been enforced for so long under the threat of sanctions. So they tried to weasle out of it the best they can by ok'ing blood fractions, but if we're going to keep is Scriptural according to WT definitions, then blood fractions are not acceptable. Not blood is acceptable, none of it.

  • stapler99
    stapler99

    I find the date of the destruction of Jerusalem a really strong argument, because without it there's nothing to show that we're in the last days.

    Also, the two classes of Christians doctrine, which has incredibly weak Bliblical justification. The "other sheep" are the Gentiles - an interpretation which never occured to while I was a JW. There's no good reason to say that the "great crowd" and the "other sheep" are the same thing. It makes it harder to interpret the parable of the sheep and the goats - how does this work if there are two different types of sheep?

    I think historical arguments are harder, because it will be claimed that ancient chronologies were altered for political reasons. You'd have to have a lot of knowledge to argue along those lines.

    There are other killer arguments. One idea that is common among JW's (but seems not to have been officially taught for a long time) is that humans didn't eat meat until after the flood. Yet arrowheads have been found in the skeletons of mammoths, which are supposed to have been made extinct in the flood (see the picture in the Bible Stories book). There are convincing arguments why the date of Passover is not Nisan 14. The flip-flops (superior authorities, generation). Picking and choosing what parts of the Bible to view as symbolic (hellfire, destruction of the earth).

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Oh, another thing. Deep down they know they got troubles. I want them to dredge those up and sweat over them for a while. So I will give them a dead-in-the eye look and ask if they really want to know? They've always backed down. They know. It also has the double advantage of asking permission first. People are always more receptive if they've given permission.

    I've given that advice on the board and I heard back that an aunt took up the challenge from an exiting girl. She did want to know. The aunt stayed respectful, listening, agreeing, an understanding. And the girl, I hope, got a supporter.

  • minimus
    minimus

    I would center on ALL the errors the Witnesses have believed and question how the "Truth" could be so wrong so many times AND if someone pointed out that they believed the Organization's view was in error, EVEN IF THE PERSON QUESTIONING TURNED OUT TO BE CORRECT, they STILL HAD to accept the wrong viewpoint. I questioned their erroneous view of the literal heart vs. the symbolic one and sent letters to the Society explaining my thoughts and they basically ignored me for a year and told me to be patient, wait on Jehovah and go out in service!

    I would question the propriety of ALL the rules they have in effect such as you can't hold hands with your mate during a congregational prayer. Horsefeathers!

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    marked

  • ShirleyW
    ShirleyW

    I'd like to know which scripture they twisted around that says all publishers must record their time.

    Also, which scripture said that all pioneers must put in 100 hours per month and what scripture is it that changed that and said all pioneers must put in 30 or whatever it is now, hours per month.

  • minimus
    minimus

    Shirley, these are the things they have no answer for. Gets them everytime!

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