Powerful questions to DEBUNK the Universal Sovreignty issue

by Black Man 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Black Man
    Black Man

    Ok, we've had some GREAT posts about the universal sovreignty issue over the years. I'd like to have this post be about powerful common-sense QUESTIONS that get right to the core of unraveling it for the nonsense it is.

    When I talk to JW relatives, I'm sticking with the strategy of just posing questions instead of arguing with them. So, what say you JW.net?

  • sd-7
    sd-7

    If God wanted to prove that man could not rule themselves on their own, why did he then confuse their languages at the Tower of Babel? That's a form of tampering with the evidence, isn't it? Man was united on one project and apparently so successful that even God admitted that they might be capable of accomplishing anything. So, is God really conducting a fair and honest court case if he personally disrupts man's efforts at uniting, then claims they can't rule themselves without him?

    --sd-7

  • sd-7
    sd-7

    In fact, why block the way to the 'tree of life' if man was incapable of ruling themselves? Their deaths would have been inevitable due to their own self-destructive devices, presumably through war or some other disaster (if the premise is that man was perfect but not immortal, thus capable of being killed); but ensuring death after 70-80 years prevents a successful dynasty of human leaders from being long-established. Convenient, isn't it?

    --sd-7

  • I Want to Believe
    I Want to Believe

    How about the fact that Israel, as God's chosen nation, was supposed to represent the superiority of His rule, yet was always bested in every way by some other nation? It's hard to even secularly verify its existence. Anyone looking at human history to determine who had the best civilization, with social progress, laws, invention, and just general betterment of the human race (and thus the best gods) would say Rome, Greece, Egypt, Babylon, or even many of our modern nations. If God's rule is so great, shouldn't His visible people have made a better showing?

  • outsmartthesystem
    outsmartthesystem

    If God was really loving.....and he wanted to PROVE the issue of sovereignty.....why not let Adam and Eve grow old and die.....while allowing their offspring to remain perfect and witness what happens to the ones that challenged his sovereignty?

    Oh yeah.....cause then we wouldn't have the lame assed excuse that is used today as to why God allows wickedness and suffering.

  • MC RubberMallet
    MC RubberMallet

    Satan made the claim. Job PROVED it false. Satan made a liar in fronts of ENTIRE SPIRITUAL REALM. (JW usually agrees)

    So if the issued was settled, why allow thousands of years to go by, to keep proving same issue? If Job provided answer, and Jehovah wanted to enforce it, ok, allow it to extend 1000 years maybe. So the issue was resolved by MANY faithful Israelites. Satan looks like a dummy.

    So, would a loving God truly allow the extent of human suffering, holocausts, genocides, child rape, etc, over 4000 more years to prove a point? One that has already been proven at that?

  • oldlightnewshite
    oldlightnewshite

    I always thought the issue of Universal Sovereignty was to prove before the multitude of angels that jah had the authority to rule. I would assume that the angels were created immediately cogniscent, unlike humans, who become self-aware at around 5 years old, and can retain memories. Angels would remember immediately as they were created, the fact that they had been created. There would be no need for faith on their part that Jehovah created them. It would follow that he had authority to rule, being their creators. They would have witnessed his creation of the universe and planets, mankind and animals. It seems totally illogical that he would then have to vindicate his right to rule before eyewitnesses in heaven.

  • BlindersOff1
    BlindersOff1

    "

    Man was united on one project and apparently so successful that even God admitted that they might be capable of accomplishing anything. So, is God really conducting a fair and honest court case if he personally disrupts man's efforts at uniting, then claims they can't rule themselves without him?"

    Great Point! SD-7

  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    Presumably you're talking about JW's theodicy for explaining why an all powerful and loving God would permit suffering and evil? How about first setting out what the issues are according to the JW's

  • notjustyet
    notjustyet

    Quote by sd-7 " If God wanted to prove that man could not rule themselves on their own, why did he then confuse their languages at the Tower of Babel? That's a form of tampering with the evidence, isn't it? Man was united on one project and apparently so successful that even God admitted that they might be capable of accomplishing anything. So, is God really conducting a fair and honest court case if he personally disrupts man's efforts at uniting, then claims they can't rule themselves without him?"

    I have often thought about this, tampering with the evidence is a no no in my book.

    I have heard a Jw explain Jahs possible reason to tamper with the evidence, and it was " If he did not change their languages, they might be able to progress technically so fast that by the time that Jesus was due to be on the Earth, they might have already had video recorders and if they had video recorders they would have recorded Jesus and if they recorded Jesus on video doing these miracles they would not have a need to have "faith" to believe in all these things that the bible says happened. Also they might have started to worship Jesus instead of Jehovah"

    That was the reason he gave for Jah tampering with the evidence back at the Tower of Babel.

    Of course this same person thinks that Jahs reason for having dinosaurs on the Earth for a while was due to the fact that the vegatation in the Earth would have taken over by the time that Adam and Eve got here.

    Another Jewel from the same person was that his beleif was that Man had never REALLY landed on the moon, it wal all a lie and fabricated by the USA, Could not convince him otherwise. Then one day he approaches me and tells me that he has changed his mind on whether or not man landed on the moon since he had read an article in the Watchtower that mentioned "Just as man has landed on the moon,....." So he said that since it was in the Watchtower, it must have happened.

    NJY

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