by Christ Alone 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I was wondering if there was anywhere someone could point to in the Bible for the Watchtower belief that the Great Crowd is not included in the New Covenant. I know that this is their line of thinking when it comes to Jesus being Mediator. They say that Jesus is only Mediator of the New Covenant and since the GC is not under the New Covenant, Jesus is not specifically a mediator to them.
Just wanted to see if they have any scriptural "proof texts"?
It doesn't.....But if you accept that the rest of the concept is true and that Spritual Israel and New Jerusalem do depict the "anointed of 144k", then you might find reason to believe the rest.
How did they get us to believe this stuff? Wouldn't the Bible have been clearer if the writers thought that there would be a group that would not partake in the New Covenant? There is nothing to substantiate this. Nowhere that it says the Great Crowd is not under the New Covenant. Nowhere that it says that the Great Crowd would not eat of the bread and wine. Nowhere that it says that they would STILL have eternal life even IF they didn't partake of Jesus body and blood.
I think they get us to belive it via sleigh of hand with the following Bible text from Luke 22 at the last supper.
Jesus has demonstrated the New Covenant, then some time later, an argument breaks out amongst the Diciples about who would be the greatest, after Jesus puts them right he "confers" on them places in his Kingdom to rule as Kings with him, because they stuck with him in his trails.
Nowhere does it say that the New Covernant is for anyone to rule as Kings, it says its for forgiveness of sins due to Jesus sacrifice, whereas the Old Covernant was salvation by works.
The bit about Kings that the JWs use, though it appears in the next paragraph, its clear its not related.
19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”
20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. [a] 21 But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. 22 The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed. But woe to that man who betrays him!” 23 They began to question among themselves which of them it might be who would do this.
24 A dispute also arose among them as to which of them was considered to be greatest. 25 Jesus said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. 26 But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. 27 For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves. 28 You are those who have stood by me in my trials. 29 And I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Interesting that it is only Lukes Gosple that makes any mention of the ruling as kings dispute and promise, Matthew and Mark mention the eating of the Symbals of the New Covernant being for forgiveness of sins and as a rememberence of him, but nothing about the ruling as kings.
Its just another case were the JWs match two unrelated Biblical passages in order to get folk to belive in theri doctrines of men.
You might as well ask:
Where does the bible say the 144,000 go to heaven and the great crowd do not? - answer: it doesn't, they made that up.
OR:
Where does the bible say the invisible return of Christ was in 1914 C.E.? - answer: it doesn't, they made that up.
OR:
Where does the bible say that Jesus Christ was formerly Michael the Archangel? - answer: it doesn't, they made that up.
You can pretty much go on from there through most of their doctrine.
On the reverse side of this question, that is, proofs that the "great crowd" is in the New Covenant:
'They wash their robes and make them white in the blood of the Lamb.' (Rev 7:14)
Compared with:
Also, he took a cup and, having given thanks, he gave it to them, saying: "Drink out of it, all of YOU; for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,' which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins. (Mt 26:27, 28)
They take advantage of the blood of the Lamb in the very way that Jesus said the "blood of the covenant" does. In this point in the coversation at the last supper, Luke 22:20 uses the phrase "new covenant."
And then there is:
They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down upon them nor any scorching heat, 17 because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them, and will guide them to fountains of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes. . . (Rev 7:16, 17)
Compared with:
This is what Jehovah has said: "In a time of goodwill I have answered you, and in a day of salvation I have helped you; and I kept safeguarding you that I might give you as a covenant for the people, to rehabilitate the land, to bring about the repossessing of the desolated hereditary possessions, 9 to say to the prisoners, ‘Come out!' to those who are in the darkness, ‘Reveal yourselves!' By the ways they will pasture, and on all beaten paths their pasturing will be. 10 They will not go hungry, neither will they go thirsty, nor will parching heat or sun strike them. For the One who is having pity upon them will lead them, and by the springs of water he will conduct them. (Isa 49:8 - 10)
Rev 7:16, 17 is an allusion to Isa 49:9, 10. Isa 49:8 refers to Jesus as being made "a covenant for the people." The "people" under that "covenant" are then described in verses 9 and 10.
Isa 49:8 is partially quoted by Paul in 2Cor 6:2 and given as a call to the Corinthians to respond. The "prisoners" (Isa 49:9) that respond 'repossess the ... hereditary possessions.' They are obviously being referred to as a people belonging to the covenant that granted them "hereditary possessions" in the first place. Since they have "hereditary possessions", they are "sons." (Compare Gal 4:7)
It's interesting how the Society's Isaiah commentary deals with these verses in Isaiah 49. They take Jesus as being referred to in verse 8, but they substitute "pledge" for "covenant." But never explain what they mean by "pledge." They are trying to remove the idea of a "covenant" with regard to the great crowd.
I hope this adds some to the discussion
Take care
Interesting question, here is the only related thing I have found.
EVEN in Paul's time, EVERYBODY wasn't anointed. They new of 2 paths, Paul was seeking a higher calling, a greater reward.
(Philippians 3:13-14) Brothers, I do not yet consider myself as having laid hold on [it]; but there is one thing about it: Forgetting the things behind and stretching forward to the things ahead, 14 I am pursuing down toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.
What prize and upward call? Jesus gave many illustrations, but one example....Luke 19:11-26 speaking about God's kingdom and how depending on what the slaves had done who had been given with silver, was how many cities they were appointed over.
There are many scriptures which speak about those who "inherit the kingdom". Scriptures that say neither people who do this or that will 'INHERIT" the kingdom. Seems to be speaking about that group, the higher calling.
Just on getting life itself would be doing what Jesus told the masses about love. But the higher calling, which Paul was striving for, is a lot harder to obtain.
*sorry for spelling errors lol ie Knew/new
I do agree Endofmysteries that there is a "Higher calling", but do not agree with the Watchtower that this is the New Covernant, the New Covernant is for all, just as the Old Covernant was for all.
Hopefully those scriptures that we all felt unworthy of relate to the Higher calling, the preserve of the Saints ot Annointed, but that as a result of Jesus shed blood and mercy, the New Covernant, even us sinners who ask will in fact receive.
There is no other Mediator between God and men except our Lord Jesus Christ. The Bible does not teach that Jesus is only Mediator of the New Covenant, this is a doctrine of the WT. In 1 Timothy 2:5 we read, I quote: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" (KJV)
I have encountered many JWs, but when this subject was brought up they tried to change topic. I just hope it is not unkind to say that JWs are brainwashed. They are going through an intense weekly training where they are well prepared and taught how to aproach and talk to people at their doorstep. They have specific 'proof texts' which they use in order to show you their excellent knowledge of the Bible; however, when challenged and serious questions are asked, they jumpe from one 'proof text' to another and they get really uncomfortable. They are not interested in studying with anybody who knows the Bible.
I try to be as respectful and kind as I can with them; I believe they are honest people, but unfortunately they are indoctrinated with false teachings by the WT who is their 'Thought Police'.
