Prayer with my son before lunch. Your advice / experiences needed!
by Daniel1555 20 Replies latest jw friends
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Daniel1555
Dear friends,I would like to hear your comments or suggestions on the following:A little background info.I managed to fade completely. My wife and I are separated and in divorce right now. My wonderful little son is now 2.5 years old and living with his mum who is a devout JW. In fact she tried a lot to reduce my time with him. It didn't work out. At the moment I am 2 days with him all 2 weeks and I am fighting for more time. When we will go to court for our divorce, my lawyer will ask the judge to make sure, that during my visitation time he is with me, even when it conflicts with my wife's kingdom hall meeting time. Also there will be shared custody (as is usual in germany) especially because I want to be involved in all important decisions (also with regard to medical urgencies). Moreover we will ask the judge to state, that she shouldn't hinder my son's relationship to me because of the fact that she views me as an apostate. I think it is important, that I further the relationship of my son to his mum and vice versa (also not talking negative about the other person).My parents (who are also JW's) are often with me when I visit my son. I have a good relationship to my parents. They know exactly why I left the JW's (or why I am inactive in their eyes). They know that I think the bible is man's word and not inspired of god, they know that I hate the shunning of df / da persons and they in most details know, why I think the borg's view of blood is completely wrong. I even told my mum a few month's ago, that I don't pray to Jehovah anymore, because in the bible he ordered or committed cruelest acts (mass murder, genocide and murder of children and babies). I explained to her, that during all of this, my personal relationship to god became stronger, but that my view of god changed and that he / she is most certainly not the god of the bible. In fact I still believe in a "creator" or a "higher force", I just don't believe in organized religion anymore. I am also very interested in science. I for example believe that evolution is a fact and that human life is much older than the 6000 years as described in the bible. This is for me not in contradiction to the concept of a creator or god.Sorry for the long introduction.Now I come to my problem:When my parents and me are eating lunch with my son, they always want to pray to Jehovah before the meal (as they did in all their life). As I explained before, I hate to pray to a cruel god, and I view "Jehovah" as a cruel god. So until now, when we were together with my son, I always said the prayer, because I don't want my father to pray to "Jehovah" with my son. So as I prayed, I never mentioned the name "Jehovah." I just made it short and used words for a 2 year old, like praying to our "papa", "thanking that we could have fun playing together" or "thanking for the animals" etc. But I always ended the prayer like "through your son Jesus - Amen." Lately however, my mum started saying to my son before my lunch prayer. "Now let's thank "Jehovah."When I am alone, I never pray before the meal. I think it is an empty tradition, especially always the same endings "through Jesus - Amen." Especially I have problems with it, as I don't believe that Jesus had to die this agonizing death for us. The doctrine of the ransom is something I find very cruel and a manmade doctrine (I believe though that Jesus was an extraordinary person and a "son" of god in the sense that all of us can be "sons" or "daughters" of god). However I don't really want to elaborate on this thought with my parents, that I am technically not even a "christian" (as a christian must believe in the ransom).So when I pray at those times, and use those endings, I kind of feel like a hypocrite. And I don't want to be something I am not, before my son, especially as my son is still very young and is learning so much and views me as a role model. Moreover he is indoctrinated constantly when he is with my wife. My goal is to strengthen his critical thinking abilities. But on the other hand I also don't want to upset my parents too much.Moreover I want to show to my son, that we are free "when" and "how" we pray.Therefore I see 3 options:1.No prayer at all when we are eating together with my son.I would have to explain to my parents again, that I don't pray to "Jehovah." So I can't pray in the way they expect a prayer to be acceptable. Of course they would be free to pray silently for themselves.It is difficult for me to explain this to them, because I don't want to hurt their feelings.I maybe could tell them, that I don't want prayer to be just a "tradition", something superficial or a "must." Moreover Jesus said in Matth. 6 that when praying you should go to your private room, shutting the door, pray to your father who is in secret. Maybe I could tell them, that prayer is for me something very personal and private, and that I will do that with my son in other circumstances and not before lunch.On the other hand, wouldn't it be strange for my son to see, that I don't pray before lunch but that my parents silently pray?What do you think about this all?2. a compromiseI pray before lunch, but on my way and most certainly not to Jehovah.On my personal way of praying, I never say "in the name of Jesus" or "Amen."I could explain to my parents, that I pray differently and not to Jehovah. Maybe they decide for themselves, that they couldn't share in such a prayer.Or I could compromise and make a simple prayer and use "in the name of Jesus" and "Amen" just to please my parents.When doing this, I would need to explain to them, that they shouldn't say "now let's pray to Jehovah" before the prayer.But somehow I would feel like deceiving myself and my son.3.I tell my parents, that I instead of a "regular prayer", I want to introduce another thing before lunch. A funny "table saying" (a short funny verse or saying) or sometimes a children's prayer.What do you think about this? How would you react in this situation? Did you maybe even make some experiences with that?How can I tell my parents in a diplomatic way?(I will go to bed now, so I can reply tomorrow) -
Driving Force
I still pray with my family using the name Jehovah and in the name of Jesus.
Considering that Jehovah is not the name of the most high god of the bible, it does not really matter, keeping up appearances to keep that contact with your family is important.
Addressing a prayer to Jehovah, is effectively addressing a prayer to nobody.
The first time the name Jehovah appears in any written records was in 1270, this can be checked in the organizations own literature. In the old "Aid to bible understanding", in the last paragraph on page 884. However you will not find any reference to this in the Watchtower library or the index. (I wonder why?)
I still pray, but on my personal prayers I address the prayers to our heavenly father.
I have not got that far as to not believe in god, it may come, it may not.
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stillin
How about, "Good bread, good meat, good God! Let's eat!"
sorry, I couldn't resist.
My feeling is that there is no proof either way as to Jehovah's hearing our prayers. So it's a golden opportunity to say something that inspires your child's critical thinking abilities.
go ahead and be grateful. What can it hurt?
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Giordano
If we were at my mothers or sister she would offer a prayer. I would sit silently as would my wife and son.
If in a restaurant a silent prayer while we watched our food get cold.
At our house I would suggest they commence with a silent prayer so they would feel comfortable about eating.
My son caught on pretty early that praying was not something we did as a family. At the same time we were respectful. As there was nothing to gain.
One time we had a sister who tended to go long with her silent praying and after a couple of minutes I started eating. She was a little startled that I was not waiting for her to finish. I dropped the scripture on her about praying in a private room.
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joyfulfader
Prayer before a meal was standard practice growing up and my dad always said the same thing. Now my parents are the only ones still in. My sisters and their families and me and my daughter are out. My mom even knows I am an atheist but he still always prays before all family meals. He even prayed when they visited my home with my boyfriend present. I have no idea how to approach it either since they have accepted that we don't believe anymore but treat us normally. I don't want to mess that up.
My whole family will be coming for my daughter's graduation and I will have non witnesses there including my "not really boyfriend", my df'd friend (with whom they have associated with in the past) and some of my daughter's old friends from before who aren't baptized and some of her school friends...about 20 people. I do not want my dad to pray before the meal I am preparing in my own home but I too have no idea how to avoid it.
When I am at their house it's their rules but I kind of want to keep my house jehovah-free. My daughter is attending a church now and is not able to be influenced so that isn't a worry. I guess I just want my house...My rules.
I shall be keeping up with this topic to glean info for myself as well. I wish I could offer some advice!!
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LisaRose
I fondly remember my (cat hating) elder father-in-law saying prayer before dinner at my house back in the day. My cat, a total revenge pooping malcontent, clawed him in the nether regions right in the middle of the thing. He calmly grabbed him by the scruff, threw him out the door and finished the prayer.
Probably not what you were looking for, but you did say you wanted experiences.
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Finkelstein
Sorry Daniel not a nice thing to go through. Welcome to the forum.
Its a difficult situation but the final decision is yours to make since its your son, he legally doesn't belong to the WTS/JWS. Your parents should respect your decision irregardless, they really do not have any choice even if they dont agree with you.
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zeb
The 'Aid book' has probably fallen from grace as it was authored by Franz the one that was later tossed out of the wts. -
StephaneLaliberte
Since you believe in God, when you pray, weather you call him Jehovah, Yahweh, Allah or whatever, it is the same God that will hear that prayer and will obviously know it was meant for him. So, using Jehovah just to keep your parents happy should make no difference.
When ending the prayer, I can understand skipping "in the name of Jesus", however, why not use "Amen"?
That being said, though some "giving thanks" in the bible were reported before some meal, I strongly doubt that it was before every meals. this practice sounds redundant to me.
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StephaneLaliberte
oh, also make a quick search in the JW library and highlight all of the bad things that are thought about Apostates and anyone leaving the JW religion. Than, tell the judge that you cannot conceive that your kid could be brought up in a religion that will instruct him to despise his own father.