Matthew 27:52-53 WTF!?!?!?!

by Cagefighter 54 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • glenster
    glenster

    Gloss: I've read that, but it works if the idea was the tombs split open and
    the next phrases explain how that's important later--the bodies were like dry
    bones, not resurrected and going into the city, till Jesus was resurrected.

    Some similar notes from a web page by glenn miller (not the band leader)
    4/7/97:
    http://christianthinktank.com/oddrise.html
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5TZWh11fY

    In Jewish thought of the day (i.e. the rabbinical strains that later became
    Mishnaic Judiasm) the bodily resurrection of OT Jewish saints would occur when
    the messiah came. They expected a bodily resurrection like that in the passage
    to occur at the revealing of the messiah. One rabbi was recorded as saying this:

    "R. Jeremiah commanded, 'When you bury me, put shoes on my feet, and give me a
    staff in my hand, and lay me on one side; that when Messias comes I may be
    ready." (cited in Lightfoot, Commentary of the New Testament from the Talmud and
    Hebraica, in.loc.)

    ...no longer is access to God 'covered with a veil' and no longer are His
    saints covered with 'the veil of death'...

    ...Ezek 37 with its creative description of the enlivening of the dry bones
    influenced Jewish imagination in picturing the resurrection of the dead. The
    first part of Ezek 37:12-13, "I will open your tombs," probably shaped the third
    line of the quatrain of Matt 27:51b-52b, "And the tombs were opened." But the
    Ezek passage continues: "And I will bring you up out of your tombs, and I will
    lead you into the land of Israel. Then you shall know that I am the Lord." Even
    as elsewhere Matt enhances the scriptural background and flavoring of material
    taken from Mark, so here scripturally he goes beyond the quatrain by offering in
    27:53 the fulfillment of the rest of the Ezek passage: "And having come out from
    the tombs,...they entered into the holy city [of Jerusalem]."

    Another biblical passage may have shaped Matt's addition, especially the last
    clause "and they were made visible to many," i.e., Isa 26:19 (LXX): "Those in
    the tombs shall be raised, and those in the land [or on the earth] shall re-
    joice." Thus in what he has added to Mark (both the quatrain taken over from
    popular tradition and his own commentary on it), Matt has developed the theolog-
    ical insight. In apocalyptic language and imagery borrowed from Scripture he
    teaches that the death of Jesus and his resurrection ("raising") marked the be-
    ginning of the last times and of God's judgment...[DM:1140]

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    Gloss: I've read that, but it works if the idea was the tombs split open and the next phrases explain how that's important later--the bodies were like dry bones, not resurrected and going into the city, till Jesus was resurrected.

    The raising of the dead still takes place during the crucifixion even with the gloss. That's the problem. If it were the case that the dead were not resurrected till the third day, then the gloss would have occurred in v. 52. As we have it, the raised dead remain in their tombs until Jesus himself is raised. There is also tension with v. 54. "The things that took place" (ta genomena) here includes the resurrection of the dead, but the centurion could not have reacted to something that was not seen till several days later. The gloss is awkward and its removal solves these problems, and it has a clear theological motivation.

    There is some evidence that the story of the resurrection of the saints originally was associated with Jesus' resurrection in the source traditions but which the evangelist associated instead with the crucifixion. In Matthew there are two earthquakes, one at the crucifixion and one at Jesus' resurrection (which opened Jesus' tomb). In the Gospel of Peter, the centurion's confession occurs not at the crucifixion but in his witnessing of Jesus' resurrection days later, and the vision of the talking cross has a close connection with Matthew's reference to the raised saints:

    Gospel of Peter 5:20-6:22, 9:35-10:42, 11:45: "And at the same hour the veil of the temple in Jerusalem was rent in two. And they drew the nails from the hands of the Lord and laid him on the earth. And the whole earth shook (hè gè pasa eseisthè) and there came a great fear. Then the sun shone and it was found to be the ninth hour....Now in the night in which the Lord's day dawned, when the soldiers two by two in every watch, were keeping guard, there rang out a loud voice in heaven, and they saw the heavens opened and two men come down from there in a great brightness and draw nigh to the tomb. The stone that had been covering the entrance started to roll by itself and give way to the side, and the tomb was opened (hè taphos ènoigè ), and both the young men entered in. When now the soldiers saw this, they awakened the centurion and the elders, for they also were there to assist at the watch. And while they were relating what they had seen, they saw again three men come out (exelthontas) from the tomb (apo tou taphou), and two of them supporting the other, and a cross was following them, and the heads of the two reached to heaven, but the head of the one held by them surpassed the heavens. And they heard a voice out of the heavens crying, 'Have you preached (ek è ruxas) to those who sleep (tois koimòmenois)?' and from the cross there was heard the answer, 'Yea'.... When those who were in the centurion's command saw this they immediately ran to Pilate in the night, abandoning the tomb they had been guarding, and reported everything they had seen, being full of fear and saying, 'Truly he was the Son of God' ".

    Matthew 27:51-52, 28:2-4: "And behold the veil of the temple was rent in two from top to bottom and the earth shook (hè gè eseisthè) and the rocks were split. The tombs were opened (mnèmeia aneòkhthèsan) and many bodies of the holy ones who had fallen asleep (t ò n kekoim è men ò n) were raised, and coming out ( exelthontes ) from the tombs (ex tòn mnèmeiòn) after he was raised they entered into the holy city and appeared to many....When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified and exclaimed, 'Surely he was the Son of God'...And behold there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow. Those who were keeping guard were so afraid of him that they shook".

    It has been suggested that the talking cross represents those who had slept that Jesus had preached to in Hades. There is a link here to another Petrine source: 1 Peter. We read in 1 Peter 4:6 that "the gospel was preached even to the dead (nekrois eu è ggelisth è)" and earlier we also read that Jesus "was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit in which he went and preached (ek è ruxen) to the spirits in prison" (3:18-20). Another text with a similar theme is Ephesians 4:8-9 which quotes Psalm 68:18 to claim that when Jesus "descended into the lower parts" he then "ascended on high leading a host of captives and gave gifts to men". Ignatius of Antioch (early second century AD) similarly wrote that Jesus "died in the sight of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth" (Trallians 9:1), and the prophets "looked forward to him [Christ] as their teacher, and therefore he for whom they rightly waited came and raised them from the dead" (Magnesians 9:2). This connects the theme of Jesus preaching to the dead with the resurrection of the dead, which Ignatius here indicates has already occurred. This is quite close to the idea in the pericope in Matthew (notice for instance that while the dead Jesus preached to are sinners in 1 Peter, they are holy prophets in Ignatius), and that makes sense as well since there is a close literary relationship between Ignatius and Matthew (possibly because they originated in the same milieu, i.e. Syria). A similar tradition can be found in the Ascension of Isaiah (second century AD): "They will lay their hands upon him and hang him upon a tree, not knowing who he is. And thus his descent, as you will see, will be concealed even from the heavens so that it will not be known who he is. And when he has plundered the angel of death, he will rise on the third day and will remain in that world for five hundred and forty-five days. And then many of the righteous will ascend with him, whose spirits do not receive their robes until the Lord Christ ascends and they ascend with him" (9:14-17). Compare also Justin Martyr (middle of the second century AD): "The Lord God remembered his dead people of Israel (Isra è l t ò n nekr ò n autou) who slept ( t ò n kekoim è men ò n ) in their graves, and he descended to preach (euaggelisasthai) to them his own salvation" (Dialogue, 72.4). As one final example of this belief, consider Tertullian (late second century AD): "The patriarchs and prophets migrated from the lower regions (ab inferis migraverint) as appendages of the Lord's resurrection (appendices dominicae resurrectionis)" (De Anima, 55.4). This well-attested tradition associated the resurrection of the patriarchs with Jesus' resurrection. It appears that the author of Matthew misplaced this reference and moved it back a few days to coincide with the crucifixion itself, producing the contradiction that the gloss aimed to resolve.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    A f**king zombie horde!

    Awesome!!!

  • braincleaned
    braincleaned

    This scripture surely confirmed my atheism, amonst others. But the clincher for me was the story of the she-bears that ripped apart 42 children just for teasing the bald prophet Elisha. THAT gave me all I needed to diss this bastard god and see in scripture more BS than in any fairy-tale.

    First the character of YWWH proves to be one of a cruel despot - but quickly, you realize the story is bogus, because 2 bears can only kill the few slowest ones to run away. No way can 2 bears kill FORTY-TWO kids unless they are paralyzed on the spot for the taking. In any case, that story, the flood, the creation days where the sun was created AFTER vegetation, etc... gave me enough to know the Bible was a bunch of stories to not be taken literally, and also to be disguarded scientifically as barbaric and naive.

    But most of all - it's the horrid character of YHWH that is painfully apparent.

    As Richard Dawkins nailed it:
    “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

    THis is to say that EVEN if YHWH came to me in person, proving he exists _ I would REFUSE to follow him, just as I would refuse to obey Hitler.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Dawkins is a ballsy guy, I gotta admit.

    braincleaned - "This is to say that EVEN if YHWH came to me in person, proving he exists, I would REFUSE to follow him, just as I would refuse to obey Hitler."

    Reminds me of how I was able to stop being afraid of destruction at the Big A in the unlikely event the WTS actually ended up being right all along.

    When I imagined a world where the GB gets to run the show for eternity, oblivion didn`t sound so bad, anymore.

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    If nothing else this proves that JW's are not Christian despite their claims. Also, they do not believe the very book the supposedly follow. If you just read those verses it is clear that miraculous events were taking place. NO, no, no, says the WTBTS. We believe that after Christ died there were no more resurrections until after 1914, our man-made calculation. In order to shore up that interpretation we must say that people were evidently hanging around in a graveyard and saw some bodies get ejected from their graves. They don't have enough faith to even believe that when their " Eternal Father " died for them that a few more miracles could have happened.

  • tootired2care
    tootired2care

    Wow, I've never noticed this passage before. Assuming of course that any of this is actually real for the sake of argument, I can't help but wonder if this is fullfillment of the John 5 ressurection from the memorial tombs prophecy.

  • Christ Alone
    Christ Alone

    Many Christians find this passage difficult too. However, is it much different than the account of Lazerus being raised from the dead?

    There is no way to get around these verses. They are included in the earliest manuscripts, and as I think was already brought out, the early church Fathers commented on them. Most of them feel that this was a resurrection in the same way that Lazerus was resurrected, in that they were raised to life, and eventually died again. Their resurrection was temporary.

  • glenster
    glenster

    "The raising of the dead still takes place during the crucifixion even with the
    gloss."

    The timing required by the Greek wasn't clear to me from the English. I've
    looked at various interpretations, including what various things of context re-
    quire the passage not be about. One sympathetic interpretation I found was the
    idea that hopeful followers saw it that way, not literally, in that they spoke of
    Jesus as a guarantee of the time when the messiah would bring related resurrec-
    tions (sort of "mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the resurrec-
    tions"). They became convinced that Jesus was the messiah, they'd pinned this
    upcoming event to the arrival of the messiah, so they spoke of being convinced
    it was a reality, too--it appeared to them this way.

    PS about Dawkins and the OT: there's orthodox, conservative, liberal, progres-
    sive, and reform faith regard of the OT--not just the problems of fundamentalist
    stances or no faith. Those are considered by the others and don't require athe-
    ism. I'm working on an article from a progressive/reform outlook that includes
    coverage of those OT concerns, too. I won't recommend every stance used by each
    of them, but there are various books and web sites by people of faith about it
    including various books refuting the stances Dawkins uses. He's entitled to his in-
    terpretations and choice to be atheist, but it's not hard to counter that he
    forces his case as requiring it.
    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=6&sqi=2&ved=0CEMQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.voxday.net%2Fmart%2FTIA_free.pdf&ei=59CGULqiMojo8QTApIFo&usg=AFQjCNGTY8OH7Q3sVGzgdHV7Cj6MMUhimQ&sig2=A63fsNq7aBFgfxCdpGTx-A
    http://ancienthebrewpoetry.typepad.com/ancient_hebrew_poetry/2007/06/stanley_fish_sm.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dawkins_Delusion%3F

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    The Witchtower refuses to accept that people were resurrected in this passage.

    I dont see why. There are accounts of resurrection in the babble:

    The dead man who was thrown into the cave where Elijah was buried came back to life.

    The widows son who was resurrected when he lay on him.

    The daughter of Jairus. lazarus. None of these experienced the resurrection through Christ and so died again.

    Why couldnt this happen in matthew 27? The WTBTS again massages the verse to fit its teachings, as it does when it puts the words "EARLIER resurrection from the dead " in the mouth of Paul, or changes the scripture :

    " Whatever you ask me in my name i shall give it" to "whatever you ask in my name will be given"

    HB

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