by 00DAD 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
They asked me something along those lines at the start of my second or third meeting back in '96. It was obvious they had got the idea from somewhere else - possibly the CO.
I told them I knew what they were up to and we should get on with the judicial.
It was one of many occasions the committee were left feeling like they were not in charge of their own meeing.
How on earth could "Those Who Have Not Associated for Many Years" also "have a measure of contact or association with the congregation"??? They're mutually exclusive.
I believe it is intended thus: People who are no longer affiliated may work with or have a social relationship with members of the congregation.
Shortly after I ceased attendance, one of the elders addressing my reservations regarding the Watch Tower Society stated that if I doubted that the Society is who they claim to be, he was certain I would "write a letter" [disassociating myself]. I didn't respond and the matter was dropped. At another interrogation, a different elder asked: "But you still believe that the Society is God's Organisation, right?" I told them that my research into the Society's history raised grave doubts and that it devolved on them to address my concerns. They did not do so, of course. But they also did not disfellowship me.
00DAD- I think some of these elders have been trained or do it on their own- to ask you more questions at a JC than what you were hauled in for in order to nail you on some other charge IF in fact they don't have enough evidence to get you on like " circumstancial fornication " as was the situation in my case. I think they wanted to entrap me because they didn't have enough evidence to DF me legitimately so hey it's like : " let's create something ! " LOL ! I can laugh about it now- but it wasn't funny at the time it happened ! SoI believe that's truly why they try asking more questions that don't involve your DFing issues you were brought in for. They wanna nail you for somethin' if they ain't got nuthin' on you. Otherwise they look at it as a waste of their time I guess
Does the person have a measure of contact or association with the congregation so that a leavening, or corrupting influence exists?
00DAD, I think this is worded just so.. they lawyers that write this crap to protect the WTBTS's $ are very crafty. If you are married and your family goes to the KH an Elder with an agenda COULD say you have a leavening influence. They use the same tactics to separate families by allowind divorce on the grounds of " absolute spiritual endangerment " which does not exist according to the scriptures. They are masters of using deception and loop-holes for themselves.
@ 00dad Thank you for stirring my thought processes regarding your topic. As someone who has made certain statements which ruffled some feathers in the congregation, I feel as if I am viewed with a certain amount of suspicion. Elders just seem to appear at my shoulder from time to time if I'm having a conversation with someone. The distrust is mutual! My answer to the LOYALTY question would be this; "Brothers, as fellow Christians I have to say to you, with respect, that you have absolutely no right to ask me or anyone else such a question. If we read Jesus' words at Matthew 24 regarding the slaves, Jesus tells us that he will judge who is faithful, and who is evil when he returns to do his judging- but you are asking me, a publisher, to carry out the judging!! We were told by Jesus that there would be evil slaves in the same household. Now that there are only 8 men claiming to be the "faithful slave", which of those would you judge to be an evil slave? I will not go beyond what is written; I will leave the judging to Christ - Jehovah has entrusted him, not me! Likewise with the 'wheat & the weeds' sown in the same field - I can't judge." If it became clear that such ones were conducting an inquisition and were looking for blood, I would revert back to the old saying which says, "the best form of defence is attack." I'd quote 1st Peter 3:15 and say to them point blank, "I demand a reason from you regarding your belief in Jehovah's written word, the Bible, not the teachings of men which invalidate God's word; Do you believe (as we've been taught by the FDS) that during Christ's 1000 year reign, "new scrolls" will be opened which will reveal wonderful new teachings and instructions from Jehovah - delivered by Christ and the 144,000 ?". I'd then suggest that they study Revelation 20:1-12, and when they were prepared to discuss what the Bible really teaches, come back and talk to me about Scriptural truths, rather than organizational directives.
I was DFd three weeks ago. They flat out asked me if I still believe the Watchtower society was Jehovah's organization. I told them "that remains to be seen.......I have so many questions that you are unwilling to answer. How can I be sure if the society is God's organization if you won't answer me? Your answers would go a long way toward helping me determine once and for all if the society truly is God's one and only organization." They determined that my lack of affirmative answer was enough to hang me.
Phizzy:
It is bad enough that when somebody wants to fade or leave the religion with no fanfare, they are on an emotional roller-coaster ride. But the idea that they may get a visit from some Judases intent on kicking them when they are down is just too much.
I had a situation similar to this soon after I began my "fade". I bluntly asked the elder what his real motives were for wanting to see me and I plainly stated that if his motives were like the subject matter here that he would not be welcome. Anyway, the visit never materialized and I do think that he was sincerely wanting to 'help' me. However, I am aware that now they aren't interested in helping anybody. They just want to know if you are for or against.
If you let it slip that you are against, you will lose friends, family and business associates (if you have any). These false shepherds are very spiteful to the point of being hateful and want to ruin anybody who leaves.
Phizzy,
They may ask you if you think the govening body is Gods sole channel of comunicating with his people here on earth or something simular.
You can say yes or say any thoughts i have on that matter i would prefure to keep to myself.
Karter.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/189607/1/Borg-court-3rd-session-verdict
As a doormat, I have a long memory, as all the crap of many feet is collected on me. That said, I can recall being asked this 'loyalty question' in my judicial committee. I saw no point in lying about it. I mean, what more proof does one need in the face of multiple false prophecies, flip-flops on teachings that have resulted in death, divorce and dismay for thousands, and a clear lack of respect for Bible verses in their original context? It's not God's organization, and that term doesn't exist in scripture just because people were organized. 'Organization' is a business term, not a Biblical term, and it was coined for usage by someone who lived very well as a result of coining the term and abusing his position of authority over the sheep.
The fact that it is being asked consistently in every committee involving people who have doubts indicates that this is a standard directive that has been given to elders to use, whether it was given to them in print or not. The testimony of so many just eliminates my need to see it in print.
--sd-7
I recently left a fellowship. And rather than just disappear, left with what I thought was a politely expressed letter for my main reason and was immediately accused of a number of falsehoods and innuendos all having to do with lack of loyalty to the church teachings and authority structure. LOL They were quite irate for me having played the truth card.
