Your explanation for a total contradiction in the New World Translation. (page 6)

Cofty may I ask a question ? During the Christmas period especially in Trinitarian churches Isaiah ch 9 verse 6 is often quoted , as you would be well aware . Now the Watchtower has one take on this verse , particularly the "MIghty God " part and obviously others see it in a different light as proof of Jesus ' divinity . I know that you made the distinction between that and Trinity . I just was curious how as someone who has been on both sides of the fence how did you view that verse being used to support mainline church teaching .

On another thread you did agree that Watchtower teaching did sometimes linger with an individual long after leaving ( not a Witness state of mind ! ) So I guess I'm wondering was it difficult to accept another interpretation of that verse , and others , that would have been at total odds with your previous beliefs ?

A somewhat personal question , so tell me to mind my own business if you wish and you should know that I would not take offence (not that you would be too worried I suspect ) .

Jan

cofty

Jan - Is Isaiah 9:6 ever quoted in the NT? I don't think it is.

Again, the trinity is a giant leap from adoration of Jesus.

Once the trinity had been imposed on the church it became easy to trawl the OT for verses that could be used to fit. Quote-mining is also what JWs do to support their doctrines.

Wonderment

Island Man: I am inclined to view your explanation of Romans 10:13 as insightful and correct. Very good!

Wonderment

jhine: "Also Ignatius of Antioch who died in 115 AD had no doubt about the Divinity of Christ . I understand that this stuff is very boring and of little consequence to many but there is no doubt that the idea of a Trinity was in the VERY early church with the claim that it was passed down from the Apostles themselves."

The evidence is incomplete to claim "there is no doubt that the idea of a Trinity was in the VERY early church."

What the early record shows is that the early Church Fathers manifested a confusion about the person of God and Christ. Their written comments are conflictive and show a deviation from the message of the Christian Scriptures. The holy spirit was not officially a "person" until the 4th century. There can't be a "trinity" withou the third person.

jhine

Wonderment , the earliest use of the word Trinity is well before the4th century . I am trying to get the exact quote .

Cofty , you did not answer my question ,well only with a response worthy of a politition ! Iam not trying to get you to admit to anything ,I know your current views ,I was just curious how you reconciled JW teaching with very different teaching in the church you joined after learning TATT

So many ex JWs become atheists , I wondered if it was impossible for them to feel comfortable with any different religious beliefs after the hatchet job the Watchtower does on other denominations . Jan

coalize

So many ex JWs become atheists

The real question is : how it's possible than some ex-JW don't become atheist? They doesn't have enough of these deplorable brainwashing fairy tale that are all religious spiel ?

Crazyguy

I have a thought that no writer of the NT new what the name of the Hebrew god was. The masserites did all they could to get ride of any name and any older writings could of mentioned a collection of names like they do today, El, Ywh, even possibly Marduk, Enki, Moloch, etc. Marcion who was instrumental in creating the NT thought the this guy Jesus was not the son of the old testament god because This god was to evil.

TerryWalstrom

The Bible reflects accretions over a certain span of time.

By 'accretions,' I mean layers of transitional beliefs superimposed

over each other.

In earliest Christianity, there was mostly Messianic Judaism. Gradually, the pagans who converted (i.e. Gentiles) were absorbed--especially after AD 70. In that space of time the strict monotheism gave way to a light paganization (is that a word?) due to Greek influence (demi-god status). In other words, don't be misled into assuming the Scriptures TEACH ONE WAY and one way only. The Scriptures are a diversity of opinions redacted (and forced) next to each other.

So what?

So you can prove contradictory things by cherry-picking carefully. There is no GESTALT.

Christianity is a patchwork quilt.

Of course, the Bible contradicts itself. You have to be purposefully dull-witted to insist otherwise--and you obviously are not that.

Think of it like this.

What if you asked, "What is the ONE reason for all traffic accidents?"

See what violence that context-forcing does to a "true" answer?

Expecting internally inconsistent opinions to be consistent is a wrongly based presupposition on your part.

Welcome!

jhine

TerryWalstrom ,

I know lots of people much more intelligent than myself and better educated who see no contradictions in the Bible . Evidence can be presented for and against and lots of factors can influence which side we come down on . I do not try to convert , I just came on this forum to learn more about the Watchtower to be able to talk to Witnesses with more knowledge about their beliefs .

I do sometimes get involved in discussions , and I did say that I would try to find the ealiest use of Trinity , so here it is -

Theophilus of Antioch (no me neither ) circa 180AD

" In like manner also the three days which were befoer the luminaries , are types of the Trinity, of God HIs Word and HIs Wisdom "

and Tertullian 160-215

"We define that there are Two , the Father and the Son and three with the Holy Spirit , and this number is made by the pattern of salvation .... which brings about unity in trinity , interrelating the three , Father Son and Holy Spirit "

There are lots of others which I will not inflict on everyone .

These at least show that the Watchtower statements about the Trinity and when and how it came about are wrong .

Jan

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Your explanation for a total contradiction in the New World Translation.

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