A question of blame

by Adam 13 Replies latest jw friends

Adam

This quote comes from a recent post: "Countless humans have died because of Satan's stinking deed in the Garden." For the sake of my question, please forget that it came from a JW, after all most Christians blame Satan and/or Adam & Eve for bringing down the curse of age and death on humans. My question: Why does God never get any of the blame for this? Satan did not make humans grow old when they could have been eternaly youthful. He tempted Eve. Adam & Eve did not sentance billions and billions to disease and death. They ate fruit. Who punnished and entire species for something they had no control over? Who took from you and I and our parents and our children the dream of eternal disease-free youth and gave us instead aids, cancer, plague, arthritis, and death? God did this. God used his powers to impose this sentance on every man woman and child born through all time, save two. Where is his blame?
ThiChi

God is good. God is all powerful. Evil exists.
I think about this perplexing situation at least once a day.............
IslandWoman

Who said the Bible was true? Only the religious men who would profit from its authority! Don't expect the Bible to explain God. It was written by men.
IW
rhett

God is good. God is all powerful. Evil exists.
Yeah but where did evil come from? If you believe in the bible then you probally believe that god created everything.
Myself, this arguement is one of the biggest reasons why I don't believe in the bible. If there really is a god like what is described in the bible then that's one pretty cruel god.
I don't feel like Satan but I am to them.
Adam

Island Woman, I am an agnostic and doubt very seriously the divine nature and origins of the Bible. My question is based on the shakey assumption that the Bible is to be believed.
Thi Chi, your thought is another good thing for the devoutly religious to ponder. Though I'm sure neither of our observatios will free anyone from the opression of religion.
IslandWoman

Adam,
Sorry if I misunderstood.
IW
ThiChi

Adam, you are very, very, right....at least we are aware of what is going on..............
Rhett: Man, I hear you.
AGuest

Peace to you, and...
Sigh! Neither God... NOR Satan... is to 'blame'. Indeed, Satan is the ACCUSER of us, and the one that 'wages war' with 'the remaining ones of the seed'... BUT...
"EACH one is TRIED (by Satan)... by being drawn out and enticed (BY Satan)... by his OWN desire."
Neither God... NOR Satan... can MAKE you... DO... anything. Satan can only EXPLOIT... what is ALREADY there... IF anything... and IF... you LET him.
With my Lord... there was nothing TO exploit. With Eve... it was... "the desire of the eyes". With Adam... it was "the desire of the flesh." With us... it is one of those... and/or "the showy display of one's means of life". By means of these three, the desire of the eyes, the desire of the flesh or the showy display of one's means of life... which INCLUDES... POWER... and POSITION (listen up, WTBTS boys...), we are 'enticed... and drawn out'.
Thus, unlike the CHRIST... who succumbed to NONE of these... although ALL were 'tried' of him by Satan... WE... WILL... succumb to one... or more. Sooner... or later. Thus, UNLIKE THE CHRIST... WE... NEED A RANSOM.
He... has provided one.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
JT

Adam
here is a repost that puts it mildly to say the least
my man Farkel went off on this post
smile
REPOST:
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Human Misery For Dum*ies
[ HOURGLASS2 OUTPOST ] [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ FAQ ]
Posted by Farkel [Keflar] on August 26, 2000 at 13:50:21 {hOVTmOYbDkjc7.1TE24IvhKqcjatLo}:
WARNING!! Those of you with tender religious sensibilities should NOT read this post. Only those of you with the thickest of skins should proceed. This is going to get ugly…
God gets bored. He decides to make some creatures to keep him company. After a while, they all get bored, too. God says, “Hey let’s make some mortal creatures and mess them all up.” They all agree that is a good idea, so God creates two humans.
“First thing we have to do is give them a test they couldn’t possibly pass, and then mess them up when they fail it,” God declares. So God says (in effect) to the two humans, “Look, you both are pretty stupid, but there’s a tree over there that will give you all the knowledge of good and bad that you need to know. There’s only one minor problem. The day you eat from it, I’ll kill you.”
So the couple obeyed him. After a while, God becomes bored again, and says, “They’re NOT eating from that tree. What should I do? This is boring.” One of his companions says, “Why don’t you trick them into eating from it?” God says, “Good idea! Let it be done.” One of the companions decided that he could trick one of them by using a talking animal, so he picked a snake. One of the other companions said, “You moron! Snakes don’t even have vocal cords!” The first one replies, “No problem. I’ll use ventriloquism. They’re pretty dumb. They’ll think it is actually the snake that is talking.”
So the “talking” snake tricks the woman and the woman convinces the man to also eat from the tree. When they both discovered they were then in deep doo-doo with God, they declared, “Hey, we have SEX organs! We never noticed we had them before! It’s embarrassing to have SEX organs! We’d better cover ourselves up and hide from God.” They were a REALLY stupid couple.
So God says, “First, I’ll screw up the snake by knocking off his legs.” And God knocked off the snake’s legs. A companion said, “Ok, God, I guess you have to keep your word and kill that couple right now.” God replies, “Heck, no! It took a long time to make them. I think I’ll let them be miserable for, say hundreds of years. I’ll make the woman be miserable when she gives birth, I’ll make them sweat and be in pain when they work, and I’ll kick them out of the garden. I get to watch them get old, worn-out and die in pain. Then, I’ll make ALL of their children and children’s children miserable. That should be FUN to watch! Later on, we’ll get some guy to write that my days are 1,000 years long. No one will know the difference.”
After a while God says, “I have to have a way to let these humans know that I really enjoy killing, so I think I’ll have those two guys Cain and Abel offer up something for me. The one that doesn’t kill anything is going to be the one that suffers.” Cain didn’t kill anything, so he suffered. Abel killed something and thought that by so doing that he wouldn’t have to suffer. He was wrong. Cain killed him. God thought the whole show was hilarious.
God gets bored again. “I think I’ll kill the entire planet, except for a few folks,” he said. And he did. As soon as the leader of the survivors got of the Ark, he killed something to show his gratitude for God killing everyone on the planet except him and his family.
Later on this guy named “Nimrod” went around killing all sorts of creatures and humans and he became legendary. Nothing bad happened to him, except God got bored and let him die. God says to one of his companions, “Even though I think Nimrod was a pretty cool guy, let somebody write that I didn’t like him. I don’t want those stupid humans to know what kind of a show we really have going on up here.”
God gets bored just about the time a bunch of people decide to erect a high-rise building.
God says, “I think I’ll kill them all.” The companions plead with him, “Don’t do that! With all this killing it’s going to take forever to get that earth populated.” God say, “Ok, but I’m still going to screw them up by giving them a whole bunch of different languages to speak. You guys take care of it, but there’s only a couple of details: 1) Make sure that only two people are able to speak each language, and make sure one is a male and the other is a female. 2) If a man is short, fat and ugly, make sure his companion is tall, skinny and beautiful, and vice-versa. That way at least ONE of each couple will be miserable.” And it was done, and God had a ball watching those tiny bands of wretched humans who had to start all over again in building their lives, families and cultures.
God again gets bored and tries all sorts of things for entertainment. He tries to get this guy named Abraham to kill his son, and Abraham almost did it. God promises to “bless” Abraham’s offspring for nearly killing his son, and Abraham believed him. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Was that ever a clever ruse! Abraham had no idea what was in store for his offspring: hundreds and hundreds of years of forced slavery, zillions of skirmishes and wars, and of course, God personally doing tons of killing to that “blessed” offspring over the millennia to come. “I’ll bet that stupid Abraham would be shocked to know I’m gonna allow 6,000,000 of his offspring to starve to death, get gassed to death and die in all sorts of horrible ways,” God snarled.
Got gets bored yet again and decides to make a bet with one of his companions: “See that guy Job down there? Mess him up. Give him boils and kill his wife and kids. Have all his friends turn on him.” God wins the bet, and Job gets the booby prize: a new wife who turns out to be a total nag, and new kids who are lazy and stupid.
“See that guy named Lot down there?”, God asks. Make his three daughters seduce him into having sex with them, and then later on, have someone write how “righteous” he was. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh, by the way, kill is wife, too. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!”
One day one of his companions report to God that some teen-aged boys are teasing one of his prophets because he’s bald. “KILL THEM,” God orders. “Get a bunch of bears to rip them to shreds.” And so it was done.
As the centuries pass, the killings and human misery keep compounding, but God is still bored. “Make a bunch of nasty viruses,” he tells a companion. “I want to see some juicy pestilences. I want MILLIONS to die in the shortest possible time.”
After about 4,000 years of all this fun, God finds out that the people are beginning to get wise to his games, and God comes up with a clever plan to come out smelling like a rose: “I’m going to kill my firstborn son,” he said. “That’s horrible!” he was told. “That will even make you look worse than you do now.”
God replied, “Don’t worry, I’ve got it all figured out. You keep forgetting how stupid those humans really are. Here’s the plan: I’m going to have some words written that make it look like I was the good guy through all of this, and that it was man’s fault for the misery they’re in. I’m going to have them think I’ll “save them” from all this misery by having my Son get killed. Watch! They’ll buy every word of it!”
God almost has remorse over what is about to do, but then his son says things like “blessed are the merciful and they will be shown mercy,” and “take my yoke. It is kindly and light.”
“That DOES it,” God shouts. "I’m gonna kill now for sure! How DARE he say things like that?"
So God has his son killed and makes sure the son suffers a whole bunch before he dies. The companions say to him, “Well, God you did promise those humans that once your son died that a “ransom” was fully paid and that they would be delivered from the death and miserable situation you put them into in the first place. Are you going to keep that promise now?”
“Are you kidding?”, God replied. The fun is just beginning. We’ve got the Black Plague and a half-dozen major World Wars coming up. There are hundreds of millions of more people to kill. The best part is that those people who believed that I killed my son to deliver them from their misery are going to be the people who do most of the killing in my name in the future! Those humans are simply a pack of idiots. Never in my wildest dreams did I think this could be so much fun.”
And the “fun” continues to this very day, and the joke is on us...
Farkel
JT

Adam just another thougth to consider:
This bible text well illustrates the problem that this issue raises and then notice how the WT and this really could have been any other faith- in that they too would attempt to explain what really is a simple issue
David sinned and others got the shaft for what he did- but o no the believer must make up some goofy excuse—
How many of you recall in school how the teacher would say:
"Since Johnny is talking ALL OF YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GO TO RECESS NOW"
yep one dude screwed up and the rest of the class got the shaft, yet a beliver will find somehow to explain away THE KING HAS NO CLOTHES ON
you got to LOVE IT
JAMES
*** Rbi8 2 Samuel 24:17 ***
17 And David proceeded to say to Jehovah, when he saw the angel that was striking the people down, yes, he proceeded to say: “Here it is I that have sinned and it is I that have done wrong; but these sheep—what have they done? Let your hand, please, come upon me and upon the house of my father.”
*** w69 3/15 191 Questions from Readers ***
As a punishment for this sin Jehovah brought three days of pestilence that killed 70,000 Israelites. (2 Sam. 24:12-16) Was that unjust? Were 70,000 innocent people dying for the king’s error? The Bible plainly shows that we all are sinners deserving of death; it is only by God’s undeserved kindness that we live. (Rom. 3:23; 6:23; Lam. 3:22, 23) So those who died had no special “right” to life. Additionally, can any human today say for sure that those 70,000 were not guilty of some serious sin not mentioned in the historical record?

A question of blame

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