BAPTISM QUESTION

DATA-DOG

Are there any documents floating around the internet from the WTBTS that officially say that baptism is a legally binding contract? I am not talking about hearsay, I mean REAL information. I am thinking of telling my wife and the Elders, if they get involved, that my kid is absolutely not entering into a legal contract with a corporation. Just curious as to what's out there.

blondie

What happens when a major teaching is changed or dropped that was valid when you were baptized? Is the contract then null and void?

DATA-DOG

I have no idea. I am sure the lawyers have covered that ..... This is interesting :

http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/aspect-of-legalism-of-jehovahs.html

DATA-DOG

Nothing yet............

00DAD

I think it is interesting that the second question says we are baptized "in association with" the organization, but the organization asserts that this means we are under their authority!

Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?

How the hell do they figure that?

00DAD

I have become thoroughly convinced that the WTBTS does not care about the truth or what is right; they only care about control and obedient submissiveness on the part of the flock.

If you point out that the elders are not acting in harmony with clearly understandable Bible principles and/or not following WT policy, they will quickly make it a power issue. They have the power, the individual does not.

Right and wrong are irrelevant. Power is.

DATA-DOG

True 00DAD. I am wondering if something can be done legally. The WTBTS is deceptive because they do not tell the prospective member that they are agreeing to a legally binding arrangement. That has to count for something with minors. Then to try and hold you to the agreement later, saying that you ratified the agreement by volunteering in assignments, has to be wrong. They were deceptive at step 1, so how can you be held to the agreement? I wish we could find an official letter from the WTBTS stating that it is a contract. I would love to have it on hand because I will be telling my kid that they are NOT getting baptized before 18, even if they wanted to, which they don't thankfully.

DATA-DOG

Can someone ask Rick Simmons? He seems to care about our plight. I know he is terribly busy, but he seems to really care about us.

AnnOMaly

There's no explicit wording to say it's a legal contract (the closest is the second baptism question), but it is a given that to 'qualify' for baptism and remain in good standing, a person has to, in effect, forsake all political and religious institutions and become 'one' with the JW Org. It is like a marriage contract which, of course, a minor cannot (or shouldn't) enter into.

A complication is that minors are christened or confirmed in churches, and they then become members of that church. However, it's a whole different set-up.

Difficult one.

Phizzy

I don't see that there is any legal redress that will work , especially in the U.S.

I have heard in certain congregations minors have been told they must obey their Father's wishes until they are eighteen, and then they may make up thir own mind and get baptised if they wish.

But I bet this is far from common practice, it is still advisable to let your wishes be known, loudly and to Elders, and that you are prepared to fight them legally, if they then 'phone Legal at Bethel they will be advised that they are on their own if they influence your children in any way.

BAPTISM QUESTION

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